Today is ODP Day - #ODPDay! So I was approached by Carrie Biddle, regional Head of Allied Health Professionals for the South-west region, to help raise awareness of this important profession and hopefully encourage some new people to think ‘this is for me!’ 🍋💡🍋
But what is an ODP? 🤷🏼♀️
An Operating Department Practitioner.
Works in operating theatres …
Still none the wiser?
Join us as Anitha Rego, a theatre nurse from Torbay, and Sue Robb, an ODP from Gloucestershire, discuss their respective roles and talk about their career paths and opportunities. Sue started out as a hospital porter!
🍋💡🍋 Lemon lightbulbs:
And ( in one hours researching for this episode, I came across this amazing video poem produced by Kevin Duff, and ODP himself, for ODP awareness day 2021. I love it.
Kevin Duff – if you get to read this – perhaps I could embed the poem, properly attributed of course, into the actual podcast. Anyway, here is the YouTube link as the video is fantastic too! https://youtu.be/lxYZ7bkodhU
We LOVE it when you leave a review!
If you enjoy my podcast and find these conversations useful
please share your thoughts by leaving a review (Apple is easiest to leave a review) and comment on your favourite episodes.
I tweet as @WhoseShoes and @WildCardWS and am on Instagram as @WildCardWS.
Please recommend 'Wild Card - Whose Shoes' to others who enjoy hearing passionate people talk about their experiences of improving health care.
Today is ODP Day - #ODPDay! So I was approached by Carrie Biddle, regional Head of Allied Health Professionals for the South-west region, to help raise awareness of this important profession and hopefully encourage some new people to think ‘this is for me!’ 🍋💡🍋
But what is an ODP? 🤷🏼♀️
An Operating Department Practitioner.
Works in operating theatres …
Still none the wiser?
Join us as Anitha Rego, a theatre nurse from Torbay, and Sue Robb, an ODP from Gloucestershire, discuss their respective roles and talk about their career paths and opportunities. Sue started out as a hospital porter!
🍋💡🍋 Lemon lightbulbs:
And ( in one hours researching for this episode, I came across this amazing video poem produced by Kevin Duff, and ODP himself, for ODP awareness day 2021. I love it.
Kevin Duff – if you get to read this – perhaps I could embed the poem, properly attributed of course, into the actual podcast. Anyway, here is the YouTube link as the video is fantastic too! https://youtu.be/lxYZ7bkodhU
We LOVE it when you leave a review!
If you enjoy my podcast and find these conversations useful
please share your thoughts by leaving a review (Apple is easiest to leave a review) and comment on your favourite episodes.
I tweet as @WhoseShoes and @WildCardWS and am on Instagram as @WildCardWS.
Please recommend 'Wild Card - Whose Shoes' to others who enjoy hearing passionate people talk about their experiences of improving health care.
Gill Phillips 00:10
My name is Gill Phillips and I'm the creator of Whose Shoes, a popular approach to co-production. I was named as an HSJ 100 Wild Card and want to help give a voice to others talking about their ideas and experiences. I'll be chatting with people from all sorts of different perspectives, walking in their shoes. If you are interested in the future of health care, and like to hear what other people think, or perhaps even contribute at some point, Whose Shoes wildcard is for you
Gill Phillips 00:46
Hands up if you know what an ODP is. Well, the 14th of May is ODP Awareness Day. There is even an ODP hashtag and we apparently need to get it trending. We're hoping that making this podcast will help. An ODP is an Operating Department Practitioner. So someone who practices in an operating theatre. Are you any the wiser? So today's podcast came from a special request to celebrate the operating department practitioner profession, and for colleagues and the public, and indeed me, to find out more about the fascinating role that ODPs fulfil, and the numerous opportunities available. Apparently, you even get healthcare students who haven't heard of this role until it's mentioned. It was Carrie Biddle's idea. Carrie is the regional head of allied health professionals for the southwest region, working for Health Education England. We won't go into what an allied health professional is, that might be one for another week. Anyway, we came up with the idea of me chatting to an experienced ODP, and also to a theatre nurse, asking them about their roles and how they differ from each other. I'm talking today to Sue Robb, an ODP from Gloucestershire, and Anetha Rego, a theatre nurse from Torbay. We'll ask them, why would someone want to go into your particular profession?. Sue and Anetha don't know each other. And indeed, neither of them knew anything about Whose Shoes. So I'm not sure how we're gonna get on. It's just a case of diving in and getting to know each other. And I'm sure it will be fun. So welcome, Sue and Anitha, I'm so glad that you volunteered for this. It was very brave. We're all keen to hear more from you, and about the roles that you have in the NHS. So who'd like to kick off?
Anitha Rego 02:44
Thank you, Gill. I think I'll kick off. My career goes way back. I did my nursing in India and I passed in 1993. When I finished my nursing, the first post I was put into was operating theatres, which to be honest, really, really scared me. However, I thought okay, let's give it a go and see what happens. So I worked in various specialties back in India. Then I went on to a cardiac theatre, which really inspired me and I must say that that is where my true love for operating theatres began. And then I went to the Middle East and worked in trauma and Orthopaedics so even better. So really loved the two specialties and then I got in the family way, went back to India, had my first child and then worked in women and child centre, again in the operating theatre. And then I got this fantastic opportunity to come to the UK, so I've been in Torbay since 2003, and I've worked as a theatre nurse. I must say that is the first time I was introduced to the role of the Operating Department Practitioner, because wherever I've worked before, we've been nurses, we've had technicians, but not Operating Department Practitioners. So it took me a little while to understand what the difference was between a nurse and an ODP. And I'm sure Sue will tell us more about it.
Gill Phillips 04:06
Thank you Anitha, that's a brilliant introduction. And Sue you are an ODP. So, build on that. What is it that you do?
Sue Robb 04:13
Okay, yes. Thanks, Anitha and Gill. Yeah, so I'm an ODP. I started with the NHS in 2008 as a porter. And after a couple of years, I thought I needed to do more. So then I moved into theatres as a healthcare assistant. I settled into that role nicely, and then I just wanted to do even more. So I went off I heard about being in theatres, I heard about the ODP. So I went off and done my training. ODP is basically a specialist in theatres. So as a general nurse, they will have to come to do training to do anaesthetics, whereas as soon as I'm qualified, I could actually come straight into theatre and work and practice. So I am only specialised in theatres, I couldn't go to a ward and work as a band five.
Gill Phillips 05:04
So a nurse could come to theatres, but would have to do specialist training.
Sue Robb 05:08
Training. Yep.
Gill Phillips 05:09
But an ODP is specifically trained to work in theatres, but couldn't jump off and work somewhere else without their own special training is that ...
Sue Robb 05:17
Yeah, that's right. Yeah.
Gill Phillips 05:19
So operating department practitioner is that a helpful name, an ODP. I mean, presumably that's what you're called day-to-day, the ODP?
05:27
Yeah, we do get confused with outpatients department, you know, with the acronyms but yeah.
Gill Phillips 05:40
So I do a lot of work in my work around acronyms. So yeah, you know, sort of being a little bit provocative then but you know, the AHP and the ODP and it must be easy when you're in that world but from the public looking in, it's not massively helpful in terms of people learning what your role is, and such an important role.
06:00
Yeah, so as my role as an ODP, I can now, all part of the perioperative's experience, I can follow a patient all the way through from collecting them into the anaesthetic room. And then I can be in the theatres as a scrub assistant. And then I can also go into recovery. So I could do all three roles.
06:20
So that's interesting, isn't it, because although it took me a while to understand what the operating department practitioner does, we have grown our own for a long time. And as the educator, I am quite passionate about growing our own healthcare assistants, and developing them. I'm the lead for the assistant practitioners for our theatres, so it's quite nice as although at one point, we could have assistant practitioners and then they couldn't progress into ODP for specifics, they could progress into being a nurse. But we have actually breached that now because some of the universities, particularly we work with Birmingham City University, and they've got a bridging module
Sue Robb 06:59
Okay.
Anitha Rego 06:59
which then helps us to allow the assistant practitioners to go into ODP training, if they want to.
Sue Robb 07:05
That's really good. Yeah.
07:06
So that's been quite a positive trend. And I think over COVID we saw, although we know that ODP don't traditionally wouldn't be able to go and work in the wards, we've had our ODPs who've become surgical care practitioners. And I know that's open to nurses as well. And the surgical first assistants again, that's open to both roles. And over COVID, I think, we saw many of our ODPs went to ITU. Although our ITU don't have ODPs working for them. But they can do the ITU role and you know, it was different for them and different for ITU as well to, I think embrace that role. And that's for me has been positive over COVID. Although how they felt about it, I'm not sure.
Gill Phillips 07:49
But COVID has unlocked so many things like that, hasn't it? Because they had to happen and they had to happen quickly. And then you think, Oh, what was the big deal, perhaps in terms of processes and stuff? Do you think that that's pulling back now so that that kind of spontaneity that ..., I'm talking about the positive things that actually really worked and felt like a good idea? Is that energy being built on or are things just slipping back to being more traditional?
Anitha Rego 08:17
We've got a massive waiting list haven't we Sue? I think that will be the focus for the operating theatres now as we're coming back, getting into normal, shall we say? The New Normal from COVID?
Gill Phillips 08:29
Yeah.
Anitha Rego 08:29
So that's where the energy is going to be focused on.
Anitha Rego 08:32
Okay.
Anitha Rego 08:32
So we need all our staff in theatres now. Oh, do you agree, Sue?
Sue Robb 08:37
Oh, yeah, so definitely during COVID. I went to ITU for a couple of weeks.
Anitha Rego 08:42
I was doing like HCA work because I wasn't needed on the airway. And obviously, not being a nurse, I couldn't do a nurses role. So I just helped out where I could there. But I was on hand to like, turn the patients and, you know, put them into the prone position and stuff like that. But yeah, definitely, quite a lot of our staff were obviously deployed to the wards. But yeah, we are full steam ahead back to everything, trying to get the list back down, in the waiting list I should say. So yeah, so we're almost, touch wood I say, getting back to normal.
Anitha Rego 08:42
Yeah.
Gill Phillips 09:17
Oh, well, that's good. And how about you Anitha?
Anitha Rego 09:21
Yeah, I think we are, we are slowly getting there. A big part of our day surgery unit was taken over for other stuff. So we are literally just getting back into normal but in terms of the role of the ... , we like to call ourselves theatre practitioners when you're in theatre because you're a team rather than an ODP and a theatre nurse and tend to call ourselves theatre practitioners and the whole ethos of theatres is around teamwork. So it's not just us. We've got a multi-professional team. We've got our surgeons, we've got our anaesthetists, you know, so we range from anywhere from a healthcare assistant to consultant, anaesthetist and surgeons within a team and we all have our own students, so we also have, depending on what cases it is, that the radiologists, radiographers come in. So we truly have a multiprofessional team in theatres, it's all about teamwork. And at the centre of it is our patients. So I think it's the patient's safety. We're all advocates for our patients once they are under anaesthesia especially, it is us who take care of them. So we, I mean, I take pride in my work, and I know our team does as well. So you know, it's truly about the patient in that can be it's a shame that the role of the ODP is not advertised better, because we do really need to raise the profile of the ODPs because although. nurses come, I think they come as student nurses, and then they see other things and then they think, oh, okay, I'll go and do that, rather than coming to theatres, because on the face of it, as a scrub nurse, the role can look like a very technical role. However, we do have a patient to care for. Unless then you branch out into other stuff, you know, you can as nurses, we can go and do an anaesthetic course and then go into anaesthetics and go into recovery and recover the patient. Otherwise sometimes for our student nurses , it’s a bit difficult to see where they want to be, they come and work solely in i,n theatres , the three areas and they find their own niche if they like some of them, you know, go like to go into anaesthetic, some would say, oh, recovery is where I want to be. And some of them due to areas. So they have got that exposure all through in theatres and throughout their training period. So they understand the role much better than our student nurses who might be coming for 12 weeks. And then that's it. And as Sue said earlier, if nurses come into theatre, we then got to train them to become scrub practitioners and they could go into recovery. But again, they got to do specialist competencies. And if they want to do anaesthetic, they've got to do another, you know, anaesthetic course. So it takes a little bit longer for them to get into a theatre practitioner role than an RDP student. Because they're all that's what they're trained for. And they already there.
Gill Phillips 12:09
So if we want to, which is obviously the main purpose of this specific podcast, promote the role of an ODP, you know, you said perhaps it should be advertised better, perhaps for people to know those career paths better. I'm fascinated. So by the fact that you started as a porter. I mean, obviously, you saw more things that you personally wanted to get involved in. I bet that gave you amazing insights, that particular starting role.
Sue Robb 12:35
Oh, yeah, starting as a quartet just so great way of learning how the hospital works, and I got to see every part of the hospital. But then it gave me connections to theatres, because I was obviously always around. And that's how I got talking to, I think it was a theatre assistants. And they obviously said, Come and join us in theatre. So I absolutely loved my first day. And I knew that if I was going to go on further, I would want to go back to theatres. So a lot of people said to me, why don't you do your nursing training, then I was like, but I want to be in theatre. So me personally, and I hats off to everyone that does Ward work, and I hats off to them, but that's not for me. So having that extra role to go into while I didn't have to do all the board work, you know, and the nurse side of it was great. It was just a yes, I could do this and end up where I want to be. So that's why I chose ODP.
Gill Phillips 13:33
Definitely that more specialist role really suited you and what kinds of skills or personality I'm obviously generalising a bit everybody's different. But you know, what would attract somebody perhaps to be an ODP, rather than a more general, you know, a nurse who can go anywhere, but you want to work in theatre.
Sue Robb 13:55
You've got to be organised, obviously, I mean, nurses do you know, on the wards as well, you've got to have your organisation, you've got to be able to get on with people, you've got to be a people person, because you're that first person that someone's gonna see when they're really scared for an operation. Everyone's scared. So you've got to be able to have that sort of personality that can put somebody ease straightaway. So being an OTP. Basically, you've got that sort of personality that you can put somebody ease straightaway. Because obviously patients are scared, they're vulnerable. So being an anaesthetic practitioner, you've got to be able to have that calming influence and just general chit chat as well being chattier. Obviously you can tell I am. You've got to be able to chat to people put them at ease straightaway. So when I first started as an OT PT, when I first qualified, I went into square because, you know, as a student, I absolutely loved that part of my training, but then I missed the patient contact as much because obviously they're all asleep. And that's why I went back to anaesthetics and I absolutely love it. It's it's great. and sometimes like, you know, I can go into recovery and help out in there. Not as much as you know, obviously your recovery, ODP or covering nurse, it's just having that versatility. Because sometimes we get short staffed and I can just pop on to describe side. It's nice to have that dual role, because I tend not to go into recovery to match. Yeah, so I liked the theatre base bit. Yeah, that makes sense.
Gill Phillips 15:24
Yeah, that makes loads of sense. I think for me, one thing I really want to bring through in the podcast series, which I think is coming through strongly here is the human side. So and this is talked about whatever your role is, you're all there for the patient and your team and that emphasis on teamwork. Yeah, I just have this image, if you like, of how difficult it must be no, this is just my perception of, on the one hand you've got in the operating theatre, everybody gound up so that you know who you are. But for the patient, it could be just a sea of faces, and gowns, and masks and so on. And then, you know, suddenly thinking on the other side, you've got in terms of patient experience, and feedback, and so on, you've got someone who, for a lot of the time is asleep, so they don't know what's going on. So I think to hear you people bring it alive in terms of the passion that you've got for your roles, and the teamwork and the camaraderie between you is really important.
Anitha Rego 16:22
It's interesting, you say that jail because most of the times you hear when patients go out, finish, it's like, oh, I had, they talk about the anaesthetic room and they talk about recovery, but they in between, some of them are awake, because anaesthetics is different these days, and what it used to be, if they've had a different like regional type of anaesthesia, they might be awake. So then they're aware of what's going on. And we do. I like to say hello to my patients, if they're awake zillo, I'm described us today. And it's really important for me, and I tend to go into recovery, then when you handle if your patients are where you can talk to them. But they don't see that bit, sometimes in the middle, and they remember the anaesthetic and they remember the recovery bit. Yeah. And that's why sometimes for nurses, if you're doing solely doing the scrub roll, it can feel that we don't have the patient contact or suicide, and they tend to then float into recovery, maybe, and do that we don't want to do the anaesthetic course and do a bit of that. And I think multi skilling is the word here for the early pace, because they are definitely multi skilled in all three areas when they start, and they can fit into all roles straightaway if you like.
Gill Phillips 17:33
And I'm learning so much him the different stages if you like, and I actually did, it's few years ago now, but a really fascinating Whose Shoes project at Kingston hospital, specifically around theatres. So we did one project around main theatres. And we did some follow up work with the day surgery team, and the kind of scenarios that we brought in. So it just sort of came back to me like around recovery and to see someone and I would imagine that I'd be very happy if it was either of you. Because even though we're not recording the video, I can see that you're smiley people and engaging people and what a difference that makes to someone that the first face that you see afterwards. And then another scenario that came back specifically. So it might be something just to ask you about. And I do work around the whole person. So we were doing some work around dementia care. And the worry of families perhaps that if someone with dementia is coming around from an anaesthetic, and they're confused, is that just because of the dementia? Or is it if you had anybody coming around, they might be confused and how a condition this idea of like diagnostic overshadowing, you know, can be just because the person's got learning disabilities or dementia, you must have a lot of skills in terms of in a short time getting to know that individual and being sure that they're safe. Yeah,
Anitha Rego 18:55
I think you've hit the nail on the head over there by saying the short time we are very part of a short, you know, time in that journey. And yes, we anybody's confused. I had my I had a very small surgery, I woke up and recovered. I was thinking, why am i What's going on? Then somebody said to me, everything's fine. You know, you've just had your procedure and you're in recovery. So confusion comes as part of it, especially if you've had general anaesthetic when you wake up suddenly it's like, Oh, I was in my bed this morning, what's going on, you know, but with dementia patients, it can be a bit more highlighted and you mentioned learning difficulties as well because they are very easily disoriented if you like. And even if you say to them, this is where you are, you know, it can be quite difficult. So we tend to have the mean usually they have their own carers. So when they're in recovery and once they are slightly awake, we tend to bring their nurse or their carer into recovery so that they have that familiar face and they go into the anaesthetic room as well. Because giving directions to a A person with learning disability and dementia, if you haven't lived with them, there is a different form of communication, isn't it? So, if you're familiar, they know what you like, they know what the right terms to use, if you like as well,
Sue Robb 20:14
then it's sometimes it's just a hand, you don't even have to say nothing, just a hold of a hand is just, it makes a difference, like anything was talking about her experience having an operation. When I had mine, just somebody there just put their hand on mine, even though I knew what was going on. It just made the world a difference. You don't have to have a specific skill or to just hold a hand, you know, just that like human factor. Compassion. I guess I should say
Gill Phillips 20:44
that that's really just so basic, isn't it? Just that kindness and cuts through? Whether someone speaks a language or whether they've gotten any kind of condition is just people together? Isn't it? And that's a reassuring hand? Yeah, definitely. And mentioning something like recovery, and I'm probably going off piste a bit here. Something like somebody having their glasses handy or something in terms of re orientating. The role is so much more than just medical isn't that? Yeah.
Sue Robb 21:17
Oh, definitely. And even some patients they want their teeth back in straightaway, you know? Because well, wouldn't you?
Gill Phillips 21:28
Yeah. Yeah. Obviously, yeah. Dignity, isn't it as well as the practicality of talking just dignity and starting to feel yourself again? Yeah, yeah, definitely. Yeah. So I was going to ask you, as part of researching this I came across, I just think it's wonderful. A resource that Kevin Duff, who's an ODP produced last year for ODP Awareness Day, and it's on YouTube, and it's under unsung heroes, and, and it's a poem, and it's a lovely, lovely poem. He's done a poem video. It's just under four minutes, I think. And as a way of me understanding from nothing really, you know, what an ODP is, is extraordinary. Do you know it? No,
Sue Robb 22:15
I haven't seen it now.
Gill Phillips 22:17
I guess that's interesting. I'm a big part of my role, if you like is trying to connect people, which we're doing here and also trying to connect, you know, if we've got the brief, we want to help people understand what an ODP is. And then as part of as I say, we searching I found that so I can definitely include that in the notes. But you know, this little notes that go along with the podcast series and put a link to Kevin's video, but what an amazing thing to do. That'd be communicate. Yeah. Yes, me too. I think at the moment, it's got about five and a half 1000 views, which is obviously a lot he's done really well. But let's try and make that 10 Bells. Yeah, this year, because that was a year ago. So that would be one specific thing we could do. Yeah. So what else should we be telling people about becoming an ODP?
Sue Robb 23:10
I just like to say that when I I've qualified four years ago, so a lot of people say, you know, why didn't go into nursing? And I said, I wanted to go back to theatre, but then the question will come back, well, there's more progression for nurses. You can do a wider range of job. And it was specific for me to go back to theatre, but actually now a lot of things are changing. There's a lot more progression for the ODPs. So in the Gloucestershire churches are matrons and Deputy matrons of all ODPs I think apart from one but yeah, so they're mainly ODP. So we're moving into management as well. So that's really great. And also some chests allowing us to go into ITU and a&e departments, not the Gloucestershire chest at the moment. But hopefully, that's something that's going to come as a progression. The more wide room, the ODP is, the more opportunities are going to open up.
Anitha Rego 24:05
And also, I think a lot of theatres in generic, but especially with the piece, because it's moved on to an apprenticeship. Now the three year degree course, it includes the surgical first assistant role within that. So that opens more doors, and the third year is all about men shape, leadership, those kinds of things. So it does open more doors for the IDPs in PA to, you know, to the nursing role.
Gill Phillips 24:28
So you're seeing an important career pathway there. Definitely. Yeah, definitely. And the other thing I'm hearing that makes me laugh so one of the earlier guests in the podcast series was Dr. Terri Porrett. She's a nurse, and people say to her, Well, why didn't you want to be a medical doctor? And she says she's a nurse through and through and through. So we've got the ODP, well, why didn't you want to become a nurse? Well, I want you so if you become a nurse or somebody will be saying, well then why Don't you want to become a doctor as if this is kind of like a pecking order isn't it? Whereas actually, it's about people roles and finding the niche that works for you. And that's why I'm loving talking to people who are passionate about their role. You know, perhaps we'll get a hospital Porter, a current hospital board on the podcast at some point, that would be amazing. And this is
Anitha Rego 25:24
our matron at the moment who has recently taken or is an ODP and like Sue like yourself, he started as a photo in our trust, and then came into theatres. And back then when he did his, I'm sure he won't mind me saying this, neediness training, the training was frayed. When there's any training that you want to do is you've got to pay for it for university, but the apprenticeship is a good route for the patient that's coming along. And that's really important to progress. But yeah, Matan used to be a porter and we've had some of our orderlies who then went on and did sorry, ODP role and said, Oh, I would really like to work in theatres, and I've gone and done the ODP training, and actually are now fully functional ODPs
Gill Phillips 26:06
it's good to hear about these different journeys, isn't it? Yeah. Yeah. I've done some work recently. I work closely with Professor Becky malby from London Southbank University who runs the Darzi fellows programme. So that's how I'm involved because we do regular Whose Shoes work as part of their CO production module. But Becky and her team at the moment at the health systems Innovation Lab, are doing some work around recovery from COVID. And it's about waiting. And it sounds like this is good news, it sounds as if that problem is going away. But obviously, it's been a massive problem, you must have been just so busy, and you must be so busy at the moment. But in terms of the human side, what people can do to wait better. So communication, and it just finding out what's important to people. And obviously, depending on their particular condition, what exercises they could be doing or just things to keep them as well as possible. So it's just fascinating for me the different bits of the system. I think my vision is crazy. I'm just trying to link the whole world up. But to be able to put your part of the story into that bigger picture of what I'm trying to do and to really hear from people who've got such interesting roles and so important in terms of moving on at the moment, after the pandemic and coming out of this terrible position that we've all been in.
Anitha Rego 27:39
Yeah, I think the ideal thing for me also, as is a bit of that happens in our pre assessment in day surgery. So we start with pre assessment, then they come to the day surgery unit and they get admitted. So they've got that whole journey in the same unit and they get discharged from there. So they've been seen by the pre assessment nurses and been triaged if necessary to the anaesthetist, if anything is required, they come and have the surgery in the department, and then they get admitted there had the procedure and go back to the same route. So that is quite a nice pathway for the patients for day surgery. Patients.
Sue Robb 28:16
Yeah, sometimes we'll go and collect patients. So we see them on the Day unit, bring them through to theatre and then for me, I'm with them with the anaesthetics. Yeah, and then like I said, I've popped into recovery, see if they're okay, just you just hire your wife, you know, that sort of thing just is trying to bring that person because it can be feels like, I think to patients a bit of a train, you know, but just having that extra person going in to go and how are you? How are you feeling after the operation just gives up? human factor again, I suppose. And I just love chatting anyway, so
Gill Phillips 28:56
that's nice. I think we all need that human face. And that chatty person don't mean that smile.
Sue Robb 29:03
Yeah, that's why I missed when I was doing scrub. I missed it so much.
Gill Phillips 29:08
How was it during the pandemic in terms of you know, we've talked about holding hands or in the, the normal kind of just human contact? How difficult was it? What did you have to do differently?
Sue Robb 29:21
For me, so it was react to it were the four FFP, three masks, and obviously, gangs, extra gowns. It was hard, but just everyone's in the same boat. So you're not like, Oh, I'm the only one doing this. We're all in the same boat. And that's when the teamwork really comes together. And you realise that you appreciate your team, because they're waiting for you because in the pandemic, you were basically isolated as an anaesthetic person with your needs to test but you knew there was somebody outside that if you needed help, they will come in. So it just brought the whole team closer together. So It wasn't a good thing for everybody. But for us as a team in theatres, the pandemic
Gill Phillips 30:06
helped us. That's fascinating.
Sue Robb 30:09
Does that make sense? I didn't know about blowback for you and ESA,
Gill Phillips 30:12
I can see any nodding. Yeah.
Anitha Rego 30:14
Yeah, I think you're right. Because we are, as I said, our day surgery unit practically closed. Oh, COVID Because it was taken over by other departments, there was only a small bit running down there. So they all then ended up in our main theatres upstairs. And, and you know, there was no elective surgery going on. So it was mostly about what are we doing with urgent cases, whether they were orthopaedic trauma or general surgery, urgent cases. So the whole team then gelled to actually work with this cohort of patients. So it meant a little bit of something you haven't seen before they could go in and they Yes, we were all in full PPE. I was doing a lot of mask fitting for a lot of it was a strange thing, because I felt oh, I want to be in there with the patients. But mask fitting was important because you know, I was enabling people to then go and be there were full peepee. But what interested me is in terms of you saying, you know, holding hands, that was still happening, but it must have been a strange feeling for the patient. Because we were in full PPE and the anaesthetic room, you tend not to have their masks on, and you can see the face. And I think, like we generally everybody says, Oh, COVID isn't a lip reading. And that kind of stuff probably fell apart a bit. But yeah, in terms of just conveying that, you know, we will still look after you and holding hands, that was still possible over COVID as well. And we definitely don't want to we did a little bit of an exercise. One of my colleagues did that. And the trust is what the positives from COVID. And the biggest thing that came out for the whole staffing got was Teamwork was how they worked with the different teams, and how they gelled and yeah, so Absolutely, I agree with you. So
Sue Robb 31:56
yeah, and I think it's all about eye contact as well. You know, because you can tell a lot about someone, especially now that you could only just see their eyes, you can tell a lot by someone you know, as someone who's still smiling into their mask, you can tell. So that helped quite a lot. But yeah, and even if I was wearing gloves, I still hold a hand or you know, still, you know,
32:18
yeah, absolutely.
Gill Phillips 32:20
I think the innovation that's come from the pandemic, so perhaps to kind of pull it together, you know, on a positive note, one of these actually links to the, the Southwest where you are an ether. So, earlier podcast guests have included Rachel Grimaldi, she's an anaesthetist and she's the founder of card medic. So like all these people inspirational stories, but basically, Rachel realise that communication was going to be difficult during the pandemic, and came up with a simple way of helping with that, the way of sharing key messages on iPads and so on. And then rapidly translating these key messages getting crowdsource from the real people from different specialities and translated into many, many languages. And it's just been incredibly inspirational. She's won World entrepreneurship, awards and so on. But, you know, be very proud of your anaesthetic colleague, Rachel grim reality, and the other person who came to mind who's also as it has been on the podcast series, one of my midwifery MatExp Heroes, if you like that I really, really rate Sarah Jane pedaler is the professional midwifery advocate in Cornwall, and she is the smiley face person. That's what made me think about that you could ever imagine. And she made some lovely videos to reassure people. And she made one video, which again, I'll share in the notes of herself putting on her PPE. So basically, just to show the women and families that she was looking after. Unfortunately, we've got to wear all this stuff. It's just how things are at the moment. But here I am, I'm still me and human. That's lovely that yeah, those are the kinds of stories that we're trying to share our
Anitha Rego 34:07
thing. Yeah, and I think you know, earlier on you said something about everybody when the patient comes in, everybody's the same. So there have been some initiatives we haven't used it in our trust but you know, hats so people have you know, the names on their hat. So I can't remember which trust it was who did that but they had these hats with with the names and who they were on there. Because one scrub even we don't you know, sometimes logos who you because everybody's in the same, you know, same kind of what I like to call it but yeah, we all look the same, isn't it?
Gill Phillips 34:43
So I think that's the theatre caps campaign. And I think it came from Darby hospital if I've got that right, but the first person and I absolutely love the inappropriate way obviously the Rule Breakers. Now the first person I saw doing that was my My friend, Jenny Clark, who's known very widely as Jenny, the midwife, and she put her name on her hat and she put some little flowers and you know, just that humanising. And that's the sort of thing you might get told off for, and then becomes a movement and then becomes the way we do things around here. So we need these innovators, we need these people who are prepared to stick their neck out and do something that they think is right. So well, who knows I work quite closely with Gloucestershire hospital, we've done some really good Whose Shoes work with Gloucestershire hospital. So that could be something that comes from the podcast that hats are back in, you know, because I think COVID or not, you know, I'd rather see someone with a hat and a name on it. And, you know, the anonymous pyjamas.
Anitha Rego 35:47
And for me, the message out there is that data can sound very daunting. But for people who wants to do it, please don't be because we are a very, you know, friendly team. Because you're in theatres, you are a team, you know, and you kind of have that camaraderie. Doesn't matter whether you're a surgeon or a niece, it is who you are. You kind of you know, get to know each other quite well. And you you like a little family if you like. So it's although it sounds scary, please, for anybody who wants to out there to work in theatres, and to be an RDP, please, please, please, you know, don't be afraid because it is a welcoming teen things to can go wrong very quickly. But you know, you, that's what our job is all about. It's dynamic. It's quite fast paced sometimes. But sometimes it can be just routine. And we all have a little fun in theatres, if you'd like as well.
Gill Phillips 36:40
I think that's coming through really loud and clear. So I think that's a really good note to end on, actually, in terms of if you're interested find out more.
Sue Robb 36:49
Yeah, because there's nothing else I can add. That was brilliant. Any step. Absolutely. Brilliant.
Gill Phillips 36:54
Thank you. Yeah, that seems like a really nice conversation. I think the human way of explaining what kind of quite medical role is for people. Well, thank you so much. It's obvious soon as we finish we go oh, I should have said that. Yeah, well, certainly I'm more informed.
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