35. Claire Gartland & Amanda Pike - LISTENING to women and families, maternity and neonatal

One of our major #MatExp #WhoseShoes projects is called ‘Nobody’s Patient’. This included exploring the interface between maternity and neonatal care, and how families experience this.

Our podcast guests today are from Lincolnshire, who were the FIRST in the country to set up a joint ‘Matarnity and Neonatal Voices Partnership’ – these LMNS groups have since spread across the country.

How did they do it? What did they learn? How disd it lead to the first MILITARY Voices Partnership.

In a lovely blend of lived and learned experience, Claire Gartland, Amanda Pike (and Sue Jarvis in absentia) tell us more.

Lemon lightbulbs 🍋💡🍋

• #PutLincolnshireOnTheMap
•  It is vital to join things up better between maternity and neonatal care
•  Lincolnshire were the FIRST to have a joint LMNS - Maternity and Neonatal Voices Partnership
•  Watch this space - the new Whose Shoes project around Family Integrated Care
•  A positive outcome can be really healing, after a traumatic birth experience
•  Listening clinics in children’s centres – a great way to listen to parents!
•  True coproduction – you need a good structure to take forward concerns and make things happen
•  Keep recruiting new ‘neonatal voices’, championing issues they are passionate about and bringing new experiences
•  Use social media imaginatively to engage with families – even when they are abroad!
•  Military families face a lot of unique challenges when accessing maternity care
• Military Voices Partnership and a military care navigator important!
•  Better support for military families was a key theme of the Whose Shoes #MindNBody perinatal mental health project
•  When you have a great idea, get your local university to help collect evidence
•  Coproduction works! A new neonatal surgical unit is being built in Liverpool – following Whose Shoes conversations!
•  Let’s link up with the work around military communities in the South-West
•  Let’s share this good work far and wide!

 Links and resources 

Lincolnshire Maternity Voices Partnership
Lincolnshire's Maternity & Neonatal Military Care Programme
Lincolnshire listens - our 'neonatal parent voice'

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Chapters

• 0:50 How can we join things up better between maternity and neonatal care?
• 1:40 Lincolnshire were the FIRST to have a joint LMNS - Maternity and Neonatal Voices Partnership
• 2:51 Claire Gartland, the neonatal project lead, tells us more.
• 4:36 Listening to parents, by holding listening clinics
• 6:15 True coproduction – and the structure to take forward concerns
• 7:35 Recruiting new parents as ‘neonatal voices, championing different issues they are passionate about
• 9:20 Using social media to help a family who gave birth to a premature baby abroad, who was helped to come home and be supported safely.
• 13:41 Meet Amanda – the chair of the maternity voices partnership in Lincolnshire, who also oversees the neonatal voices and the new military voices
• 14:19 A positive outcome can be really healing, after a traumatic birth experience, says Amanda
• 16:37 #PutLincolnshireOnTheMap
• 16:54 This is very relevant to the new Whose Shoes project around Family Integrated Care
• 17:29 So what about the innovative Military Voices Partnership?
• 18:31 A lot of unique challenges face military families in maternity care
• 21:03 The introduction of a military care navigator
• 21:40 Evidence! Lincoln University are supporting with research to try and get this rolled out nationwide
• 22:18 Better support for military families was a key theme of the Whose Shoes #MindNBody perinatal mental health project
• 24:35 Support for military families has been a huge gap in maternity services – now finally being addressed
• 25:22 Topical! Coproduction works! A new neonatal surgical unit is being built in Liverpool – following Whose Shoes conversations!
• 27:25 Local systems feeding into regional and national systems, so parents voices are heard at all levels, and appropriate action taken
• 30:54 It is good when informal and formal systems can you come together in a positive way
• 31:33 Facebook live sessions – and other imaginative uses of social media to engage with families
• 34:15 Let’s share this good work far and wide!
• 34:41 Claire was the first neonatal transformation leader in the country – a trailblazer!
• 36:05 And a big shout out to Sue Jarvis!
• 37:20 Let’s link up with the work around military communities in the South-West, following our Whose Shoes workshops

Transcript

SUMMARY KEYWORDS

Lincolnshire, neonatal, voices, families, maternity, shoes, people, listening,  connections, military, military families, podcast, neonatal unit, parents, RAF, experience

SPEAKERS

Gill Phillips, Claire Gartland, Amanda Pike

Gill Phillips  00:10

My name is Gill Phillips and I'm the creator of Whose Shoes a popular approach t o coproduction. I was named as an HSJ 100 Wild Card and want to help give a voice to others talking about their ideas and experiences. I'll be chatting with people from all sorts of different perspectives, walking in their shoes. If you are interested in the future of health care, and like to hear what other people think, or perhaps even contribute at some point, Whose Shoes Wild Card is for you.

Gill Phillips  00:40

Hello, and welcome to another Wild Card Whose Shoes podcast. Now, as many of you will know, we do a lot of Whose Shoes work around improving maternity experience. Just check out the powerful #MatExp Hashtag, which has been rocking it since 2014. One of the major projects that we did was called ‘Nobody’s Patient’. Now the clue’s in the name really isn't it, looking at specific groups of women and families who all too often fall between gaps in services. One of the main areas that we explored in ‘Nobody’s Patient’ was the interface between maternity and neonatal care and how families experience this. Well today I'm delighted to be talking to Amanda Pike and Claire Gartland from Lincolnshire, who are helping shape and design these services in a truly innovative way.

Gill Phillips  01:40

Learning from parents is always vitally important. So why not bring maternity and neonatal voices together? Lincolnshire were the first people to do this. And Claire and Sue Jarvis, who unfortunately can't be with us today were at the helm. And Amanda has been a powerhouse in taking it all forward. Building, making sure that parents voices are at the centre of everything.

Gill Phillips  02:03

I originally linked with Sue Jarvis through a fantastic Whose Shoes event that we did together in Lincolnshire, but that's another story. And as well as their maternity and neonatal voices partnership. I'm hoping Amanda and Claire will tell us about the innovation that they're also leading, setting up the first military maternity voices partnership in the country, listening to military families, and the specific challenges that they face. Amanda and Claire also bring together that wonderful partnership, of lived experience and learned experience, parents and professionals working together in a really positive way. So welcome, Amanda and Claire, can you tell us a bit more about yourselves and this extraordinary work in Lincolnshire? I think you're going to start, are you Claire?

Claire Gartland  02:51

Yeah. Hi, there. Hi, I'm Claire. I'm a nurse I started off as a paediatric nurse and a neonatal nurse. And currently I'm working with Better Births, which is now maternity and neonatal transformation, quite a big title. And I'm the Neonatal Project Lead across Lincolnshire across the whole system of Lincolnshire and looking at that neonatal pathway, and making sure that the parents have the best experience and a safe experience. So throughout my career, I've been really passionate in that parent voice even when I was a paediatric nurse and listening to that parent voice, working with parents. And when I came into the role, I knew immediately that we had to get those neonatal families on board if we were going to shape our neonatal journey. So together with my partner, Sue Jarvis, who we work very closely together, we felt that we needed a neonatal voice. And we felt that it needed to be within a structure through a maternity voices partnership structure. So that voice could be heard. And I know it's nothing new listening to Parent Voices, but we've really structured it in Lincolnshire, so that voice is heard and any concerns or experiences they want to share, we can listen and escalate where we need to, so that action can be taken.

Claire Gartland  04:36

So we started out by having listening clinics in Lincolnshire, and we did these in children's centres. We invited neonatal families to share their experiences. And we got a really good group of parents that came and shared their stories and we knew that the neonatal journey can be really traumatic. And in Lincolnshire, it's a huge rural community. Some of those neonatal babies may need transferring out of the county. So what we were hearing was that journey wasn't seamless. And being transferred to another unit brings a whole load of traumatic experiences for families, that babies can be quite poorly and they're a long way away. So we listened to families and we recruited neonatal voices to be the voice for the neonatal pathway. We developed a neonatal workstream meeting, which they attended. And they linked with all the stakeholders. That's the teams involved, the professionals, the charities, the organisations in Lincoln, together, discuss neonatal care and the neonatal voices were integral to this meeting. So they shaped the pathway. So now we have I mean, there's a lot of work to be done, but it's quite a seamless pathway for neonates in Lincolnshire and those voices, those neonatal families are at the heart of it. Some of the work that they've been involved in is coproducing, real ,coproduction, any new projects, new developments, they're at the heart of iit. For example, they attend meetings within the hospital, and maternity unit, discussing preterm care. They've been the voice for those preterm babies. They've attended regional meetings, as parent representatives from Lincolnshire to shape those preterm pathways. They've also spoken at conferences, regionally and nationally about their experiences, to professionals. And we know that when we hear the parent voice, it's very powerful. So they are passionate as well, these neonatal families, they've been through a traumatic journey, and they want to give a bit back and they want to help make it better for other families. So we know that as you, parents and families become involved, they'll come a time when they will probably go back to work, so they might not be there for long. So we're always recruiting new voices, and new experiences and current experiences. And I think that's the hardest part of it is recruitment. And Amanda will probably say that. So, Amanda, maternity voice chairs being key to our neonatal voices, they fall under the umbrella of the maternity voice partnership. So as I said previously, it's very structured. And they're a key element and link into the partnership. We did at one point have eight voices. And they chose their remit and one of them had a baby that was a 25 weeker, and she had been transferred out and so she would attend the preterm birth meetings. Another neonatal voice was very interested in improving breastfeeding. So she had an interest in that. Another voice was a voice within the neonatal National Audit programme. And we have Amanda who links with the regional Parent Advisory Group meeting and brings the voice from Lincolnshire up to the regions. So it's very structured, but it's also very informal. I mean, that a few examples where we felt it's worked quite well, obviously, with the big social media presence on the enabling voices on different social media groups and they pick up neonatal families. And as part of the maternity and neonatal transformation, they can identify families that need support. We did have one family in Singapore that had reached out; they were on holiday and a very premature baby reached out to the neonatal voice through social media asking for support with repatriation and signposting. So together because it is in collaboration, you know ourselves working for the transformation team. And those neonatal voices together, we were able to signpost them to local services available, we made sure that their journey back was seamless. We made sure that they had the right appointments with the consultants and they knew how to get there. And it was things like they didn't even have a GP back home. So it was identified in GP so that when they came home, everything was in place. So it's reaching out to families as well, which these voices do. And social media is a huge, huge forum that they have for these neonatal families. After things that some of the concern (we started in 2018 with neonatal voice) was they’d be within a neonatal unit, get discharged, the doors shut, they can't go back in, they go home, and that's where a lot of the time it hits them. And in Lincolnshire, it was that same person those services for neonatal families that we've developed. Now working with all our partners, our health visitors, children's centres. We have mutual link health visitors, we have the FAB worker, a family and baby worker, within the children's centres that signpost these families now and we work together. And it's the voices that are telling us what to do. We also obviously have the national asks that we need to fulfil, and the voices are aware of those, but they're helping us shape that pathway. And working in collaboration with all the professionals within the system. And sitting around the table together, whether it be on Teams, we all joined together with the voices and the partners throughout the system, the perinatal mental health team we work very closely with and all of them are aware who the voices are, they linked very closely with Amanda. And Amanda will then help support those neonatal voices. So at the moment we're trying to recruit, aren't we, Amanda,

Amanda Pike  12:18

We are indeed always, always recruiting.

Claire Gartland  12:22

And we have got a few more neonatal on board, who are very keen to help. And one of them is going to be involved in the military project as well.

Gill Phillips  12:32

That's an amazing beginning. And I can just feel there's so many different podcasts that kind of spin off from here. And we've got, you know, what it's like to have a premature baby abroad, and how you can help from back home and the role of social media and so on. So that's amazing. The whole issue of going back home after being on a neonatal unit, and the work that we're doing with Whose Shoes around family integrated care. So hopefully that will be a direction we can touch upon. I love the idea of the individual voices and tapping into people's individual passions. For somebody, it's breastfeeding, and we've had that through maternity experience with Helen Calvert, a mum in in Manchester, and the extraordinary influence that she's had. And then the whole question of how perinatal mental health fits through all these experiences and the trauma that you mentioned. So thanks for that fantastic introduction, Claire, and I could see Amanda nodding along in particular, I loved it when you nodded when Claire mentioned the word seamless, because seamless compared with Nobody's Patient. That's what we're looking for, isn't it? So over to you, Amanda.

Amanda Pike  13:41

Ah, thanks for having us today. It's really lovely to get to talk about the things that we really passionate about and that are working really well here. So yeah, I'm Amanda Pike. I'm the chair for maternity voice partnership in Lincolnshire, but I also oversee the neonatal Voices and our new military voices. But just as a side note to everything, what I am really chuffed about the way we work in Lincolnshire, and this is as a non clinician, so my background is that I was long haul cabin crew in charge of very big aircraft for 17 years. And then I had my children and didn't want to leave them anymore. But I actually had a really varied experience during the late loss of a baby. I had a traumatic birth in another county, but then a really healing experience really healing. So I saw the importance of how a positive outcome can impact a family and an individual. So I'm really passionate about patient experience, patient voice and what's lovely as a non clinician is the fact that in Lincolnshire, I can hand on heart say that is at the forefront of the agenda here. And it's just heartwarming that Patients are viewed as such an integral part of everything that's been created or worked on here. So what's wonderful is just being a part of that and seeing it evolve. So I came into post in 2019. And the neonatal voices were already established, the amazing work had already been put in, and I just slotted in and have just tried to keep the cogs moving as it were, because it was during the pandemic when I came into post. So it was really tricky. But that didn't stop us, we still continued to have our meetings be that online, or not, as the case was at that point, and just feed into how everything was working. And as Claire pointed out, I don't think that neonatals were considered to the level that they are within Lincolnshire in other areas. So I had a lot to learn, although I had a baby that was on a neonatal unit, it is a very different experience. And those families do have different considerations. So it's been a big learning curve for me. But a lovely one, and heartwarming, in the fact that these families have been identified and also cared about. But I'd say that on the whole, all the work that the maternity and neonatal transformation team do in Lincolnshire, is like that, no matter what they do, and so to slott in under that umbrella, here with the Lincolnshire MVP, is great. It's wonderful to be a part of, and because of the way they work, that's how we identified the next group, which are military families here.

Gill Phillips  16:38

So to be honest, that's why I was really keen to have this podcast because I think there's something for me around putting Lincolnshire on the map, because I think sometimes, you know, you get certain trusts that are very well known, and they do good stuff. And they've got very good means of getting it out there. And the work that we're doing around family integrated care and so on, when I heard that you were the first people who'd linked up the maternity and neonatal voices as your partnership. I thought that's a story that needs to be told in a way because I know other people are doing that now. But if you were the first ones to do that, that is innovative, isn't it? And why not sing the praises of Lincolnshire? So that was the particular reason I've been nagging Sue Jarvis a little bit to try and set up this podcast and tell the story. And that's what we're doing today. So that's brilliant. And then there's your military partnership. Now, I didn't know anything about that. When I started talking about let's have this podcast. I didn't know about the military partnership, and then you sent me that lovely animation. Wow, that's amazing. So Amanda, tell us about that. Because you've been very much involved in that, haven't you?

Amanda Pike  17:45

Yes, indeed. I'm very proud. So it's very new. Back in 2019. Again, Sue Jarvis our partner in crime bless her, the project manager for the maternity neonatal transformation team in Lincolnshire, we were hearing an increased amount of feedback, where military communities were involved. And some of it wasn't great. I'm actually a military dependent myself, my husband's in the RAF. And so I was able to see it from a perspective of actually a lived experience as well. So we managed to touch base with one of the RAF medical centres here. And the other people that alerted us to this demographic were the perinatal mental health team who were also noticing an increasing amount of patients going through their service. So together, we realised that actually, we've not considered this group before. And having now introduced, what I'm about to tell you about, it would seem that lots of people initially are quite surprised with the fact that we are needing to look at these groups. But through our findings, we're hopefully evidencing why. So I popped into medical centre, and I spoke to the practice manager there and explained the things that we were finding. And from that the ball began rolling. And we were having meetings and groups, and listening events where we began to really engage with these families, and listen to what they were experiencing, because although we'd had feedback in we didn't actually have a bespoke listening event of any kind until this moment. So we were hearing about feelings of isolation because often, they don't live near any friends or family. And quite often, they seem to be what we call posted, so moved very late into their pregnancy. And so if they live in a Military Quarter, for instance, they can't access services until they have a postcode, which they don't get until the day we call ‘march in,’ which means that if say you're high risk, to get all your appointments made can be really scary and worrying. We heard about problems with men's mental health or the fact that sometimes when you're moved from county to county, you can't take your notes with you. There was an absolute amazing amount of different experiences that came out of this particular group. And when I say group, we cover serving personnel, their dependents, that's the official term, it's very archaic, their dependents, so that's their wives and partners and children, veterans serving personnel, but also those that may be part of another military community in another country and are seconded into this country. And so whoever's using maternity and neonatal services we cover, and that's for all services. So RAF, Army, Navy, Royal Marines. And together, we approached NHS England armed forces. And we had an idea of listening on a greater level to them, but also giving them some direct support, in that we asked if they could support us to introduce a military care navigator. And they very graciously and excitedly accepted our thoughts and our plans and ideas, and got on board. So Sue and I began this project. And later down the line, Claire's joined us now. And we very recently gone live. So that may be why you've only just heard about it, but it's a two year pilot. And we are very hopeful that once we can evidence, the need and how well it's worked here with our data and our analytics, because we've also got Lincoln University supporting us to gather this information, we can evidence it and then fingers crossed, we can get military care navigators rolled out country wide, who can then link together, wow, when people are moving from county to county, they will have that ongoing support.

Gill Phillips  22:18

That's fantastic. And so many different aspects. It's, it's interesting, actually, because it was something I'd never thought about until we did our third major, Whose Shoes maternity project which was #MindNBody,  the perinatal mental health project. And we work with three regions. So we work with London, and we work with the West Midlands, and we work with the southwest. As you can imagine, very different issues and the rural communities in the farming communities and so on came through, particularly in the southwest, but also parts of the West Midlands, in terms of perhaps Wooster share in Shropshire and some of the more rural areas. And in terms of all the different themes that we collected, military families came through loud and clear, then so that might be some connections that if you haven't got them already, you can make and there was even talk about having a Whose Shoes workshop in a military barracks. So we made sure that we included some scenarios around all these different topics in those perinatal mental health resources. So there will be some scenarios around military families. So to hear you talking now in far more depth, about what that looks like, and the type of families that you deal with. And the podcast series really is trying to highlight what I call lemon light bulbs. And immediately you're saying something like, until you've got a postcode, you can't fit into the system, or you can't take your notes from one area to another. Now, those are the sorts of things I really try and … poke at through Whose Shoes because they're not about the lack of staffing, they're not about money. They're about those things that you know, the little things are the big things. Well, those are huge, aren't they? And patient safety. If you haven't got your notes, and you haven't got somewhere that you can readily register at the right point in pregnancy and have you know, they talk about continuity. Well, that's the opposite. Isn't it? So, well done?

Amanda Pike  24:11

Yeah. Yeah, we're really proud, really proud to be a part of it. But we don't just cover pregnancy. So we go from conception to reception. So it's, it's just about helping these families access what everybody is entitled to and has a right and equitable service to … I don't even know if that made sense then

Amanda Pike  24:34

Good, brilliant.. Because they're important, and we want the best outcomes for families. And there has been some sad experiences that we've heard about. So if this can help, and already we are hearing great news. So when we initially told the world about this, I can't tell you the amount of messages, emails absolutely skyrocketed through the roof. Everybody onboard excited for us wanting more information, eager to perhaps start their own in other areas. It's just been brilliant. And, you know, to think that this all came about just by listening. It's just so simple.

Gill Phillips  24:34

It did to me.

Gill Phillips  25:22

It's as simple as that. Yeah,. So you've been genuinely listening to families in Lincolnshire. And what I love is, when things come about that perhaps the organisers, if you like, at the beginning, it wasn't on their radar, but because of true coproduction, the true issues come forward. Now, I'm incredibly …  and this is relevant to this in terms of neonatal care. I'm incredibly proud that I think the biggest outcome ever and probably always will be from Whose Shoes workshops happened in Liverpool, where a paediatrician or paediatric surgeon called Joanne Minford, who is amazing. Listened to Helen Calvert, who was the mum that introduced the concept of Whose Shoes and true coproduction and they used Whose Shoes across Alder Hey  and Liverpool Women's Hospital. So again, trying to bridge that gap, I guess, between maternity and neonatal / paediatric care. And I've just seen yesterday, the video of the artist's impression of the new surgical neonatal unit that's being built at Alder Hey in Liverpool. And Joanne says that as a result of basically the coproduction that they did, through Whose Shoes, and they didn't see that as an outcome at the beginning, it wasn't like we need to do something to come up with this in a business plan about a new unit. It was what naturally evolved through just listening, like you said, talking to people and listening. And I love the way that they use the visual records from the workshops that they did. And the quote that I love from Joanne was that when they started to argue inevitably about I think this and I think that they'd all agreed that they go back to those records of the coproduction conversations and say, well, actually, that's what WE said, that's what we as a group said, everybody, and that's what we must stick to, you know, so coproduction and listening is is very underestimated, I think, but it's coming to the fore.

Amanda Pike  27:22

It is it really and truly is. And something else that I think would be important for me to just talk a little bit about as well is the fact that it's not just that we are touching base with these families on a one to one basis. We take what we are hearing to a higher level. So in Lincolnshire, we also have as part of the governance process within our ICBS obviously our LMS and underneath those become …

Gill Phillips  27:51

jargon buster!!

Amanda Pike  27:52

Oh Crikey. You’re right. Good. Well, sorry. Our local maternity and neonatal programme, …No! board. LMS system!

Gill Phillips  28:07

See how confusing it is?

Amanda Pike  28:08

Yeah. But I should know by now.

Claire Gartland  28:15

It's really difficult. What we say is we've got a local maternity and neonatal system. So that's all the partners across Lincolnshire should be talking to each other and listening to families. So it's local and what matters in Lincolnshire might not fit Nottingham, Leicester where ever, but what matters in Lincolnshire, so that local maternity and neonatal system has a board, everyone, we can escalate anything to. And then higher up is the board for the whole system of Lincoln, not just the maternity the whole, and we can escalate up to the senior team governing the whole system from Lincolnshire. So we have a process where we can escalate that parent voice. So we can escalate to the local maternity system and then through to the board and then nationally if we need to, but there is a process. So we are thinking of Lincolnshire whenever we do anything. Yes. And we linked closely very closely with the neonatal network, our regional neonatal network. So that's East Midlands, so we linked very closely with them and Amanda attends their meetings as well. So they are a really good support for us. And we can say well it’s not quite right, for Lincolnshire, we need this. We need that, so it works well.

Amanda Pike  29:56

And we get to celebrate the good things that we're able to showcase to everybody via that way. But what I was going to say is that also, we have an involvement group. So that's a subgroup of our local maternity and neonatal system, there's four of them. And one of them is called involvement. And that is where different communities that touch base with lots of different families that use maternity and neonatal systems bring back their feedback into that group. And together, we look at it and we see if there's anything that we need to concentrate on, or we'd like to celebrate or hear more about. And that feeds in to the system at a governance level, really. So it's a real way of not just listening, but it's the what ifs and the What shall we do? What can we do? Or what are we doing wonderfully? Or what's working wonderfully.

Gill Phillips  30:51

And sharing it

Amanda Pike  30:52

That's it. Exactly.

Gill Phillips  30:54

And I love the way you've described them. I think it's important. I mean, obviously, Whose Shoes a very informal, slightly wacky kind of approach, but we need the formal structures as well. And I think you've described really well how the informality and the formality come together in terms of systems. And I also loved it. I think you probably underestimate in a way, you know, you're talking about the military voices, partnerships, and so on. And I'm sure sitting behind that is a whole,, extra world of friendships and relationships that come together, that you've enabled informally, without having to call it a peer support group or whatever. You've brought people together. And talking about relationships. I mean, I know you do a lot of quite innovative stuff with social media as well. What can you tell us about that?

Amanda Pike  31:41

We're really lucky that we've got some wonderful followers. And because we link so well within the system, or the providers help share what we're working on. And we do Facebook Lives where we have amazing figures, I think it was from April 20 to April 21, I'd had something like 74,000 views, collectively on our Facebook Lives. And to think that's just in Lincolnshire, we're doing all right. But we cover an absolute array of topics, we make sure we covering anything that is on the national agendas, or locally that we're working on, we obviously collaborate very closely with Better Births. So it could be something as simple as we're talking about the mum and baby app that we have here, which has loads of local information that is bespoke to Lincolnshire and covers any topic you can think about to do with babies and pregnancy. But it could be that we've like recently, we did a Facebook Live where we introduced our new military care navigator Dave, and our new military MVP leads Susie, and we talked about the work, how you can touch base with them, and just gave a bit of information on what their plans are. And it's just a really useful way of engaging with these families to … it's a bit like advertising really, but to get us known a little bit better. But when we do other Facebook Lives, it could be that we are doing them with midwives, I've done tonnes with midwives. And we might talk about, I don't know, infant feeding or pelvic health or mental health. And they're really well thought of, and the service users, we have fantastic feedback about them. And in fact, talking about feedback, only yesterday was speaking to the new military care navigator who has five people on his books now. He met his first in person family, and he's only been going a couple of weeks on the neonatal unit at I think it was Lincoln.

Amanda Pike  33:48

Yeah. And this family were relieved to see him. They gave such lovely feedback. And overall what we're already hearing is that families are grateful that this project has been implemented and they can see the worth in it. I mean, we've had people crying, talking to us about how lovely they can see it being and wishing that it was in place when they were expecting babies.

Claire Gartland  33:49

Yes, Lincoln.

Gill Phillips  34:13

I can believe it. And now you're on the podcast, spreading the word I'll make sure that I include all the relevant links in the podcast notes but please don't be shy. I think this is quite as special story. So you know I hope lots of people are going to be listening

Claire Gartland  34:31

It’s very exciting

Amanda Pike  34:31

We are very grateful.

Gill Phillips  34:33

Let's hear what you're doing in in Lincolnshire I think we need a hashtag #PutLincolnshireOnTheMap! 

Amanda Pike  34:37

Fly that little flag.  And something else that I feel like again, as an outsider looking in, it’s really special, is the fact that Claire's been quite shy in explaining the fact that she was the first neonatal transformation leader in the country and was for a few years. So it's one of the reasons I feel like a lot of this neonatal, … what's the word … trailblazing work has come about is because she's been able to concentrate and really hone in on neonates. I'll let, I'll let you explain a bit more. Sorry, put you in it!

Claire Gartland  35:20

No, I think I've been very privileged to have that position. So I've worked within the system for maternity transformation as neonatal lead. When I first started, there weren't any that I could link with. So I think there are more and more coming now. So we are getting a little network of neonatal leads that the local maternity and neonatal systems, and we are meeting now, but if there are any other neonatal leads out there working for the maternity and neonatal transformation team, I'd love for you to get in touch

Gill Phillips  35:57

thanks. Thanks. Both of you. And thanks for flagging that up, Amanda because I think we need to hear about the unsung heroes. Yeah. And of course, Sue Jarvis, who's the one that's brought us together really!

Claire Gartland  36:09

Yeah. We do need to acknowledge Sue Jarvis, the work she's done across Lincolnshire for maternity and neonatal transformation. And I think she would have loved to have been here today, but couldn't make it.

Gill Phillips  36:23

She's a mover and shaker, isn't she?

Amanda Pike  36:25

She is. She really cares. So what more can we want?,

Claire Gartland  36:31

we're proud to work with her very much.

Gill Phillips  36:34

So yes. Well, I know when we did the Whose Shoes workshop in Lincolnshire, Sue was the one that pulled it all together. And you know, very much a humble mover and shaker.. Fantastic. And I think one for you to watch from my point of view. … So I'm really thrilled about this. So we've got some funding from the Q community. So quality improvement community. And that's around developing some digital resources for Whose Shoes specifically around family integrated care in neonatal units. So we're going to be looking for … it's got some audios within it. So different voices, let's have something perhaps about military communities. And let's come to you for that.

Gill Phillips  37:18

But out we're always happy to help.

Gill Phillips  37:20

So I'll keep you posted about that. And, you know, I think that's where these networks come in, and also, perhaps to link you with the people in the south-west . There's Ann Remmers and various people that I've worked really closely with in the south-west, around what they've done around military communities. And this idea of having a Whose Shoes in a military barracks who knows that might happen one day. Well, I've loved this conversation. I think what you're doing in Lincolnshire, and it genuinely sounds to me like true coproduction, you're involving people right the way through and you're discovering what it is that's important to them, rather than just inviting them in to comment on what you think is a good idea. Okay, well, thank you very much. It's been brilliant talking to you. And I think, Whose Shoes and the podcasts is all around connections, and I think some new connections will come as a result of this. So thank you both so much.

Amanda Pike  38:11

Thank you

Claire Gartland  38:11

Thank you for inviting us.

Gill Phillips  38:13

And here's my favourite outtake right at the beginning. No one can say these podcasts aren't authentic. Okay, so now we're recording. So there's some background noise there just I hadn't heard any until then.

Amanda Pike  38:29

It's an RAF jet.

Gill Phillips  38:32

I hope you have enjoyed this episode. If so, please subscribe now to hear more of these fascinating conversations on your favourite podcast platform. And please leave a review. I tweet us Whose Shoes thank you for being on this journey with me. And let's hope that together we can make a difference.