70. Aurora Thompson - the power of hope

In this powerful episode of Wild Card  -Whose Shoes?, Gill Phillips talks with Aurora Thompson - a remarkable young woman whose story of trauma, survival, and resilience will stop you in your tracks.

Aurora shares her lived experience of abuse,, bullying, mental health crises, and being sectioned as a teenager. 

She talks about her diagnosis with autism and what difference it has made.

But at the heart of her journey is a message of hope: a force she breaks down into four vital elements — connection, love, opportunity, and purpose.

🍋 All behaviour is communication - don’t judge, listen.

🍋 How is it okay to restrain but not hug?

🍋 The cost (emotional and financial) of crisis care versus the value of early intervention

🍋 The role of “golden people” — those rare professionals who bring honesty, humour, and humanity

🍋 From despair to purpose: how a photo of a therapy dog sparked hope, and how participation work with Barnardo’s became a lifeline

🍋 “Aim for the stars and you might just land near the moon” - Aurora’s call to dream big.

We also explore diagnostic overshadowing, the importance of holistic care, and why systems must stop lazily labelling children as “complex” and start seeing them as whole people.

Aurora is now studying philosophy, working with young people, and speaking out with passion and clarity to help change the system for those who come after her. Her voice is brave, authentic, and unforgettable.

🎧 Listen in for a story that is painful, inspiring, and ultimately hopeful - and perhaps take away your own lemon lightbulb or two. 🍋💡🍋

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Chapters

• 0:00 Introduction - Gill introduces Aurora and sets the scene talking about Steven Russell’s book launch.
• 2:40 Meeting Aurora - a dancefloor memory, and the start of Aurora’s story.
• 3:15 The Power of Hope - Aurora explains hope as four elements: connection, love, opportunity, purpose. 🍋
• 6:45 Childhood Trauma & Autism - Aurora shares her early experiences of abuse, bullying, and late autism diagnosis.
• 9:55 Mental Health Crisis - COVID, isolation, and the road to psychiatric hospitals.
• 12:20 Sectioned at 16 - Life under the Mental Health Act and moving to a therapeutic children’s home.
• 14:50 A Picture of Hope - the therapy dog photo that sparked a new path forward. 🍋
• 16:15 Early Intervention vs Crisis Care - Aurora reflects on how things could have been different. 🍋
• 18:45 Restraint vs Hug - Why do systems allow restraint but not comfort? 🍋
• 22:30 Being Seen as ‘Complex’ - diagnostic overshadowing, missed health needs, and her mum’s persistence.
• 25:30 Ninja Parents & System Failures - how only the most determined parents keep their children from being lost. 🍋
• 28:40 Working with Young People - Aurora’s current role supporting neurodiverse children, Makaton, and funding cuts.
• 33:55 Turning the Corner - letting people in, golden professionals, and the role of humour and honesty. 🍋
• 39:20 Barnardo’s & Finding Purpose - volunteering, participation, and turning pain into energy.
• 43:35 Dream Big - Aurora’s message: “Aim for the stars … land near the moon.” 🍋
• 45:40 Rapid Transformation - from psychiatric hospital to university in just three years.
• 50:35 Why Philosophy? - a chance meeting with a lecturer and the glue for all her big questions.
• 57:10 Autism as Strength How traits once felt like barriers now fuel Aurora's advocacy
• 59:40 Final Reflections - Gill and Aurora close with a message of hope, resilience, and dreaming big. 🍋

Transcript

Gill Phillips  0:00  

Gill. My name is Gill Phillips, and I'm the creator of Whose Shoes, a popular approach to coproduction. I was named as an HSJ100 wild card, and want to help give a voice to others talking about their experiences and ideas. I love chatting with people from all sorts of different perspectives, walking in their shoes. If you are interested in the future of healthcare, and like to hear what other people think, or perhaps even contribute at some point, wild card whose shoes is for you. 

So here we are with another wild card Whose Shoes podcast, and I'm delighted to welcome today a young guest, Aurora Thompson, in July, I was very privileged to hear Aurora speak at her first ever public speaking gig, and she was even the first speaker, which is very brave. And what a gig it was. It was Steven Russell's book launch, overcoming adversity, a wonderful gathering of people, a room full of energy, full of love. Regular listeners will remember my podcast with Steven Russell talking about how he grew up in the care system. Honestly, it is one of my favourites in the whole series, such an incredible story told with wisdom and warmth and now helping other young people such as Aurora by giving her this amazing opportunity at his conference. So it was in this context that I first met Aurora. As the day went on, we got chatting, and when it was time for Steven's Caribbean birthday party in the evening, we even had a little dance. Remember, yeah, I won't give away too much here, but Aurora spoke with great courage, sharing her painful personal story, but offering a strong message of hope. Aurora is distressing account of her childhood and how people could have stepped in to help her, but didn't made us all stop in our tracks, behind closed doors. But is it really who could who should have helped her? So, I was delighted when Aurora agreed to be a podcast guest, and I invite you listeners to meet this extraordinary young woman and listen to her story. So welcome, Aurora. Where would you like to start.

Speaker 1  2:42  

Oh, thank you so much. Yeah, I remember starting on that dance floor, yeah. We let the way we did.

Gill Phillips  2:53  

We did, yeah. So let's lead the way today with making some positive change. And you know, I think what really inspired me was your story around the power of hope, yeah, and I remember you saying that it could be an energy source to overcome adversity, and you've got some key messages in terms of breaking that down a little bit more, yeah.

Speaker 1  3:17  

So I was at Steven Russell's event, and I was talking, as you say, about the power of hope. I was actually thinking over it in what to say, because Steven had asked. He said, Oh, Aurora, would you like to speak at my book event? And I was like, okay, for how long? I'm thinking he'd say 1015 minutes. He was like, half an hour to 45 minutes? Does that sound okay? And I'm just like, okay, then what would you like me to talk about? And he says, oh, whatever you want. Like, just crack on. And so I was okay, so I'm like, sat because I study philosophy at university, and I'm sat in one of my lectures. Probably should have been paying attention. We learn about Plato or something like that. Probably should have sat listening to that, and then I was thinking, what should I write my speech on? What should I talk about? I was thinking, do I go down? I didn't want it to be negative. Obviously, there are negative parts to my story, but I was really conscious that I wanted it to be I wanted there to be a positive ending, and actually where all there were glimmers of hope and positive things throughout my journey, even in the hardest times. So I really wanted that to come across when I was speaking, and then I thought, well, what has been the most powerful force in getting better, in being able to achieve the things I want to and that was really the power of hope. And it's made up of four parts to me, so connection, love, opportunity, and I've actually forgotten the last one, just really bad and purpose, purpose. That was it that's so important. Yeah. So I broke it down into those four parts, because I was thinking these four elements were so important. And I was like, do I just talk about one of them? And then I thought, actually, they're making up something bigger in this. And that bigger thing is hope. And you need hope. You can have every service involved, every every chance. But if you don't have hope that things will change and you can't get anywhere, and what, what you need to have hope is those four, those four elements,

Gill Phillips  5:35  

yeah, it makes sense that. I mean, I remember sitting and listening to that and thinking how important those elements are, and how important hope is for anyone really. I mean, I know part of my story has been I've had more than one occurrence of cancer, and I know a lot of people who are living with cancer or living with all sorts of long term conditions, and sometimes people aren't given hope, and there's normally somebody who breaks the mould. Or, you know, hope is so important as a human being, isn't it? 100% I think it's just fundamental to, you know, whatever, perhaps bad situation you're in or something that you wouldn't choose. Everybody needs hope.

Speaker 1  6:21  

100% absolutely, I think, you know life as humans and whatever you know, we all have our challenges throughout life, and we can't get through it without having hope that things might change, or hope that there's a reason why, why we're experiencing this. So, yeah, hope so so, so important for that to get free, really.

Gill Phillips  6:45  

So do you want to tell us a little bit more about your story and yeah, what you've had to overcome, if you'd like to,

Speaker 1  6:54  

yeah, so, so throughout my childhood, I experienced quite a lot of physical and emotional abuse, and I witnessed quite a lot in terms of there was a lot of domestic abuse that went on within the family home, and then I went to school, and I was undiagnosed autistic until I was 14, so I had all of those kind of challenges that come with that, and Not being supported at school, and then I never quite fit with my peers because of that. So I was bullied quite a lot, so and you know, inevitably, that took quite a quite a toll on my mental health. Then, when I was 11, slash 12, my mum managed to get my dad to leave the house, and I thought that that would be like this magic fix. I would, I would feel better. You know, life would be great again. But I didn't feel that way at all. And I just started Secondary School at this point as well. So it was all those big changes. So it was just this constant. It kind of took a toll on the hope I felt, because things that I thought would help weren't helping at this point, and I now know it's because of the mental health conditions that I'm left with. But basically for years, my mental health was just getting worse and worse and worse, then covid hit. And although school was incredibly difficult. It was somewhat an escape, right? But I had some sort of route, you know, so something to focus on. And so when covid came and we were all into lockdown, that kind of got taken away. And a few months prior to lockdown, I'd been diagnosed with autism again, I thought I'd take that really well. I took it awfully. Yeah, I really, really struggled. I did not think I would struggle with being diagnosed as autistic, but I found that so, so, so difficult to deal with, because in my head, all the things I was experiencing because I didn't know, I didn't have a name for what I'd been through that I do have now in terms of trauma, and so I thought it was because I was autistic that all these things were happening. So I thought the reason I was being bullied at school was because I was autistic, the reason why I couldn't access any support at schools because I was autistic, the reason why I was abused as a child, that was because I was autistic. So I just blame everything. It just it completely played into that self-blame that mixed with mumps. I mean, we were in and out of lockdown for best part of two years, and that isolation was just kind of that was like this straw that broke the camel's back. That was it. And then I had about a year of being in and out of general and psychiatric hospitals. Sometimes I went voluntary. Sometimes that was on sections right under the Mental Health Act.

Gill Phillips  9:55  

Yeah, it's big stuff to deal with. And I think the way that you're reflecting on. It and explaining it is so important and so powerful. Thank you, hex. So that's massive Aurora. I mean being sectioned in particular and at that age and how frightening that must have been. Yeah. So what happened next?

Speaker 1  10:17  

So I was sectioned. I was about 16 years old, 1516, some of the time scales are a bit patchy in my head still, but I think I was 16, and it was I had a social worker involved, and they said, Well, your needs cannot be met at home. At the time. I mean, I'm a lot better at managing my mental health now, but at the time, you know, I was just called complex, complex complex. I had these complex mental health issues mixed in with being autistic and other neuro diversities. I had no school, place, home. I could not because my trauma was linked to to my family home. I couldn't go back because mental health wise, that had a negative effect. Also my mum and my sister couldn't cope again, trying to look after for someone who was so unwell, right? So it was decided that I was going to move into a therapeutic children's home. And then from there, the search begin, and we didn't know how long that search was going to take. They said, “Well, we could find you somewhere tomorrow, or it could be six months, because there's, there's no, there is no residential places, really”. And they didn't want me to be super far away, because I'd been in hospital over three hours away. So they wanted me closer to Bristol, right, which is where I'm from. So they said, well, it's going to take ages. Thank goodness. It took about two or three weeks. I was very lucky. Okay, they found me somewhere quite quickly. And they found Ferngate, and actually Penny and will, who the managers of Fern gate, they were at the to watch me speak at Steven Russell's book event. Oh, yeah, yeah. So I don't know if you remember the end of my speech, I like her, was hugging someone, yes, yeah. So that's Penny, yeah, and she's incredible, yeah. So she's the manager of of Ferngate, and so I'll go

Gill Phillips  12:23  

back. Yeah, no, it's hard to tell a story.

Speaker 1  12:27  

Yeah, yeah, yeah. But they came and saw me Penny and will when I was in in the psychiatric hospital. And I talked about this actually in speech, but they bought me this picture of Oscar. He's the therapy dog at Ferngate, but also Penny's dog, so whenever she's at work, he's there too. And people just saying, Oh yeah, no, it's just a photo of a dog. But to me, that was a real spark of hope. That was a real because it wasn't met with, well, you can't take him out. It was met with, well, you're gonna get to go on these walks with him. You can play with him, you can feed him. In the future, you'll be able to take him out on walks, on your own. And to me, it was that really, seeing that tangibility that I wasn't you know, met with so many people, that was just like, you're just gonna be stuck in the system forever. You were gonna die. You're gonna be in and out of psychiatric hospitals for your life. They were kind of, that's just what I thought. And so this picture offers so shocking, almost like a path out, yeah, yeah. It was like this way out of of my life, which I didn't want my life to be like that. And I think that is a massive misconception. Sometimes people think that with self harm and suicide and things like that, that it's like attention. I hope people, so many times, say it's like attention seeking. Oh, my goodness, trust me, even if someone's doing that for attention, which is so I've never heard of someone say it for attention, that it a behaviour, is a communication, and it's it just frustrates me so much. Like nobody wants to be that ill. You just get stuck, and you don't know how else to be, because your brain is so like in that fight or flight all the time, and you don't have to get a way out. And for you to see a way out is to say that you're ignoring the danger almost. So it's really, once you're in that depth of mental health, it is so much harder to get out of then, if you do early intervention when, when those issues are just starting to appear, because once you're in a psychiatric hospital, things are so deep rooted, you're just basically, it feels like you're reprogramming yourself. And then I moved to Ferngate, but that took about a month of transitioning out of hospital and I got back into education, which was a whole mission in itself.

Gill Phillips  14:56  

So thanks for telling this story so clearly - and on my podcast, one of the things that I really love is when people get what we call lemon light bulb moments, and some of them might be things that people have thought of before, but to hear someone like you are or just speaking from the heart about your own experience and saying things like all behaviour is communication. You know, don't make assumptions about people. Nobody's choosing to be like this. And I think particularly, you mentioned early intervention, I think that's just so difficult these days, when everything's crisis led, and nobody's got any money and resources 100% and interestingly, that's how, basically, going back as a step further, that's how we met in that I'm doing this big whose shoes project around children and families across Staffordshire and early intervention and prevention is such a key message in terms of the material that we've put together, and trying to get These discussions to actually get everybody together around the table, thinking how that can actually happen, rather than just, you know, all the system can only cope with people at the most extreme need, really. Yeah. I mean, if you'd been helped earlier, or how different could that have been? You know, if you'd had that, is that preventive I

Speaker 1  16:19  

didn't need in my life. My childhood abuse didn't need to last over 10 years. My education, I didn't I didn't need to be in an education system that didn't meet my need until I was 17 years old. So I had 13 years of education where my needs weren't met, and it led me to drop it out. Then I it never needed to get to the point where I needed to be sectioned hours from my home, and it never needed to get to a place where I could no longer be cared for at home and had to go into residential care, which all my care, honestly, must have cost millions of pounds. Now I reflect on it, because now I kind of have that window in now I'm starting to kind of work with young people myself, and I have that window of how much things cost, especially in crisis care, I'm like, surely the amount of money they spent on my crisis management, if they put that into early intervention when I was 678, years old, then yes, it will cost a lot of money to begin with, but gosh, it would have saved a lot and, oh my goodness, it would have saved a lot of trauma, which is the most Important Thing money. There's always a way around. But people's lives, you know, this is people's qualities of life. When I was in hospital, there was children as young as 12 years old having their liberties taken away. I mean, I was 16, and that's bad enough, but we're talking about young children that haven't even started puberty properly in psychiatric hospitals on high doses of antipsychotics, I mean, over medication in psychiatric hospitals, just a whole another thing. It doesn't need to be that way. And I remember I do, which we'll probably come to in a minute, but I do quite a lot of work with mental health services and things now. And I remember I sat in a meeting probably about six months ago, and they said to me, there always be a need for children to be in psychiatric hospitals. This was like the heads of cams for my area. And I was like, this is where we're going wrong. We're accepting that there's always going to be a need. Well, there might not always be a need, but if we have that attitude, there will be sorry. I got so frustrated.

Gill Phillips  18:49  

So I remember from your talks, I've written down one or two things that sort of jumped out at me at the time. How is it okay to restrain but not hug? And that perhaps seems to fit in now in terms of this level of frustration that you're feeling. And you know, how does the system let those 12 year olds, and obviously yourself, let them down so badly and let them have those experiences and for people to look more imaginatively at the whole person. And, yeah, what can be done to to help early and to prevent and so on. So does that quote? Is that something you'd like to explore a little bit?

Speaker 1  19:30  

Yeah, yeah, definitely. Yeah. So something I said in my talk as Gill, you've just mentioned it is this, this idea that it is acceptable to Australian people, young, young, young people, but it was deemed inappropriate to hug them when they were in crisis. I mean, I remember there were times when for my safety, and I admit, had they not had those interventions, you know, I would have done. Something really significant to myself. It was acceptable to restrain me, but they couldn't give me a hug. And if they were to give me a hug, then they were called in and says, Well, that's inappropriate, and it's kind of how, how? I mean, it's 2025, and we're still thinking that way. And I look back at like old documentaries of psychiatric hospitals, and sometimes they feel like they're not that much different. They've just got better decorations now, and having been in them, like there is nothing warm about them. But that can so easily be changed, so easily be changed just by treating people like humans, yeah, and not experiments. Yes, it was a lot being in those hospitals, and I always, at the time I was so unwell, it was hard to think reflectively. Now I reflect. I'm like, there were times where I just needed a hug, and if I was at home, my mum would have given me that hug. But you don't have that because your parents are only allowed into like the reception. They're not even allowed onto the actual ward. Really, you don't, you don't have you've been taken out of of your environment and put into somewhere and not given that warmth that you should be getting from a parent figure, or, you know, siblings or whatever, you just don't have access to it. Not only do you not have access to it legally, you can do nothing about it because you're there under essentially a court order. But, you know, a section, yeah, a section.

Gill Phillips  21:37  

So, so, so powerless and, yeah, frightening, you know, for anybody, yeah, especially for a young person. And it's interesting. I mean, I suppose an angle going off in my head is, you know, as an older person, like giving someone a hug. If I'd fallen over as a child in the playground, the dinner lady, as we used to call them, or the teacher, probably would have helped me up and given me a hug. And you can see that over the years, the kind of culture around safeguarding, for very good reasons, has changed out of all recognition, really. How should I say? But then, if it ends up that a child, you know, it's more important to follow a guideline, and that guideline might be very inhuman, than to actually comfort a child, and, you know, physically hug them or whatever they need at that time, because some people might misconstrue that, or, you know, obviously take advantage. What kind of society are we in?

Speaker 1  22:31  

Really? 100% at the end of the day, they forget that, especially on cams wards, that at the end of the day we are children. Yes, like we are children. We're very unwell, but at the end of the day, we have those needs, and we're still developing. You know, our minds still developing, or what, I think it's up to, like 25 our minds constantly changing. And, I mean, I'm not a psychologist, I don't know exactly,

Gill Phillips  22:59  

but, well, I think that's what they say. And possibly, and this might be completely wrong, but even sort of a longer process for men than women, you know that there's more knowledge of the brain now and how it develops. And I always think, you know the 18 you're an adult. I mean, in some ways, obviously you really, really are, but in other ways, you need that support and that nurturing and that chance to grow, I think, for years after that.

Speaker 1  23:25  

Yeah, and even, like, in hospitals, the lack of, like, a holistic approach and looking at the whole person, I mean, since which probably played a massive effect into my mental health at the time, I've been diagnosed with, you know, like, hormonal conditions, so I have polycystic ovaries, and I had those problems when I was in hospital, and it affects my mood, but stuff like that wasn't even looked to vitamin levels. When I was not able to leave the house, they didn't check my vitamin D levels, anything. They're not even looking at the whole person. No, in the end, my mum said to them, can you at least check her vitamin D? Because she's not been outside in at this point multiple years. And they checked it, and they were like, Oh my goodness. You know, your vitamin D levels are so low. I was having to take, like, this really high dose the rest of the time. I was there, and then when I came out of hospital, that's when they found B 12 levels, like my vitamin levels and hormone levels were just completely out of whack, which were also all played into the trauma and my mental health issues and my suicidal idealization and all things like that. But they don't just so quick, just to look at the behaviour, but not look at what's been said with that behaviour. Why that behaviour is happening? It's just literally cry. It's just crisis management at the end of the day,

Gill Phillips  24:53  

yeah, I'm hearing it's almost, I think your story is, is a mic quicker? Of what's wrong in the healthcare system. You know, labels such as complex needs, complex, complex you said, Yeah. And the as I understand it, concept of diagnostic overshadowing, so nobody's looking at you as a whole person because you're autistic or because you're traumatized, or whatever it might be, and thank goodness for your mum who suggested something medical, basically, you know, checking vitamin D levels. If she hadn't done that at that time, how much worse could that have gotten?

Speaker 1  25:35  

Yeah, yeah. And I honestly think, and I see this through my work that I've done with Barnardos, other work that I now do for myself, my own story, my friends that I made. If you do not have a parent who is fighting for you, your child will be lost to the system. And I've seen that so many times, parents that have just can't cope and have given up and just said, I can't deal with this anymore. Over to you social workers, or over to you those people are now still in, in and out of psychiatric hospitals, and I think had my mum not fought for me the way that she did, I don't. I honestly don't think I'd be alive, because I just would have been forever, never able to access society or get back into education or move somewhere that could fully support my needs.

Gill Phillips  26:30  

And that really, in terms of the work we've been doing in Staffordshire, and I say all these, we've got 300 new whose shoes scenarios, some are specific to care experienced children, yeah, mental health, special educational needs and so on. But I think we've got 50 new poems, and the poems sometimes reach people in a way that the scenarios don't. You can't hide behind things. Sometimes, with the scenarios, people can say, yeah, yeah, we're doing that. We're doing that. You know, we're doing that quite well. But the poems are kind of straight from the heart. And I think, sadly, one of the biggest themes that has come through has been the ninja parents, the ones who fight and advocate, and what a toll that takes on them and on the whole family. And I think that quote that you've just said, you know, if you don't have one of those parents, which obviously not all children will have your loss of the system. I think you said, yeah, yeah, and it oh goodness. So these conversations are are so important. And I think for you to have the courage to speak at Stevens event, to have the courage to come on my podcast, and as I understand it to be looking for opportunities now to do more of this work. And I'm really hoping that the listeners of this podcast, you can hear how passionate, how articulate, how brilliant Aurora is. You're only young, and I know I reached out to you on LinkedIn and recommended you on the back of your talk at Stevens book launch. If people enjoy the podcast today. I mean, obviously it'd be great for me if you like the podcast or do a review or whatever. But far more important, if that's something you welcome or reach out to you on LinkedIn and perhaps do a recommendation, you know it's, I think it's these ways, these small ways, where we can all help people. And I really think, I mean helping anybody is nice, but I think to help a young person is very special, and to help a young person who is doing so brilliantly in terms of capturing that positivity, you know, having that hope, inspiring others, what work is it you're doing with young people at the moment?

Aurora Thompson  28:44  

So I work for a charity in Hampshire. So I'm now in the Hampshire area for university, and we work with children. So we follow the social disability model, so anybody that you know may be neurodiverse or have lots of health needs or disabilities, and we do a play group for them essentially. So we'll have them all day, for about seven to eight hours, and we just play essentially. And then when they're teenagers, we take them out on day trips. We go to the zoo, beach, yeah, all really cool trips. And it's just, honestly, it's so amazing. It's so tiring, because you're like, on the move all day, don't you? Do not sit down, like, honestly, I sit down for about 10 minutes to eat my sandwich, and that is it, and then I'm up moving and I just, yeah, it's absolutely great, but it's so frustrating because I've only been working there, like, free three, four months. No, not even that free about three months, and we already had funding cut again, so we only get, like five, five days a year for youth to take them out on day trips. So some of the young people are not even, you know, only getting one day a year to go on a day trip. Yeah. Yeah, so we run an Easter and summer holidays for children under 12, and then once a month, one day a month, rest of the time. And, yeah, because, because of funding. But the kids, when they're here, they absolutely love it, because they do, and I think they should pump the funding in because, you know, it's over 2000 people in psychiatric hospitals that are autistic and or got a learning disability, and that's because they don't have support in their community. And this is the kind of support that young people need. They need space where they can meet other young people that are like them, or have a space where they've got somebody who's trained and who can understand them, because we use things like pecs. I'm just starting to learn Makaton, what's what's pecs? What's that? 

Aurora Thompson  

So pecs, they're like little cards, and they'll say, like, toilet yes, no. So we work with young people who are non verbal, so we use that. And then Makaton, which I'm just starting to learn, but I'm hopefully going on a course soon. So which, for anyone that doesn't know what Makaton is, it's it's like sign language, essentially.

Gill Phillips  31:08  

And I love it that my little granddaughter has been taught quite a bit of Makaton in schools. Oh, that's so sweet. And I think you know that learning those kind of more accessible approaches to communication at a really young age. And children, of course, pick it up and love it 100% Yeah. I mean, even younger than that, the toddlers who haven't yet got speech and can say heart or, you know, that is just such a fantastic way of communicating. Oh, it's so sweet. Yeah, beyond words, yeah. So I'm glad to see I'm sure that is becoming more mainstream, I hope so.

Speaker 1  31:43  

Yeah, but there's a lot of talk at the moment in the area of which I work for this charity that they're trying to phase out Makaton, because apparently it's not a good communication style, because children have individual signs for certain things, and I'm like, they're communicating. So why would we try and change that? Because it doesn't suit the neurotypical people of the world. Like, just learn to get to know a young person. You know, it's easy just to write on a form. Well, if they do this sign, then it means this, and we pick it up like we meet young people, new young people every day, and we're managing to pick up their new signs and be able to communicate. Before I even started working, I didn't know a single thing of Makaton, and you'd pick it up so quickly,

Gill Phillips  32:37  

yes, and it's intuitive, isn't it, some of these signs, and certainly the signs that children would choose to make, even if they don't fit into a, you know, a workbook, that, yeah, it's obvious they're communicating, and just get to know them,

Speaker 1  32:50  

especially, like, eat, like, yeah, it's really simple. And then thank you is like that. But if you think, like, when you're really happy about something, you go, Oh, that means a lot. You touch your heart. So actually, it's not dissimilar to body language that we all use without even thinking,

Gill Phillips  33:06  

yes, yeah, yeah. It's people trying to fit things into measurable systems. I think that's one of my big bug bears.

Speaker 1  33:15  

So it's so out of touch from what is actually happening and what young people need on the ground it it's coming from people that all seem so disconnected and making these decisions.

Gill Phillips  33:28  

Well, I'm sure you're making a fantastic difference, and I'm so glad that you've got this opportunity to be working already. You know, while you're still a student with young people and so on. So would it be a good idea to go back and say, we've, we've mentioned Fern gate, and you've sort of hinted at what started to make the difference and to turn things around for you, and to get to the feels like much, much more positive and hopeful place that you're in now, which I'm delighted about.

Speaker 1  33:59  

I heard you were sent so tell us more. Oh, when I decided, because I always say people go, Oh, what was the moment that you started feeling better? And I don't think it was a specific moment, yeah, but I think it was a series of decisions that I had to make within myself to really allow people in, and the trick was for everyone else was to keep knocking at this door, keep knocking. And eventually I opened it. And I think it was actually something my cousin said to me when I was in hospital that I started thinking, Oh, maybe. And she said, Aurora, there's as a reason because she's got very religious and since that, I have found family faith. She said, Aurora, there's a reason why everyone's on this earth and you're finding things so hard. Imagine all the things you can do that someone is trying to stop you from doing. You know, in the spiritual way. I was and I thought, oh, what's she on about? She's on on a she, know, she's chatting a little rubbish, as usual. And I started thinking, and I was like, well, maybe there is a reason why I'm on this earth and have the parents I do, and have the siblings I do, like, out of all the possibilities on this planet. I mean, even in this country, I could have, you know, just the life I was born to I could have had any life, and this is the life I've got. I started thinking, Oh, maybe there is a reason. And then my social worker said, Aurora, I'm not gonna let anything happen to you, because that's just a lot of paperwork. He was always quite jokey. He said, I really like, you've got to stop this, because you're not gonna achieve what you think you want, and I'm not gonna let you achieve that. So you've got two options, you either stay stuck like Well, three options, you either stay stuck like this, you succeed and you die, or you let me help you, and you can have an amazing life. Wow. He was like, wow, yeah, yeah. And no one had put it as plainly as that, and I think that's what I needed. I needed almost that little bit of harshness to be like, come on, like, you can do this. He was like, Rory, you can do this. Do you think I would be sat here now trying to convince you to move out of your family home if I didn't think it was the best thing for you, right? And I was like, and he was like, Aurora, like, when have I lied to you up until now? And I was like, Do you know what Tom that is true. When have you lied to me? Because he always told me the truth. I did not like what he had to say half the time, but he did tell me the truth, and he did speak from, you know, an authentic self, rather than someone that was just trying to follow policy and procedure. Like, yeah, he was honestly one of the best social workers, and he's quite considered around in this area. Like now I speak to other social care staff, they're like, oh, did you have such and such? And I was like, yeah. And they're like, Oh, he's amazing. Like, everyone talks very highly of him, and always on the first meeting, you don't know how quite how to take him, because he is just that honest, that he is,

Gill Phillips  37:15  

yeah. And you get used to that again, yes,

Speaker 1  37:19  

100% and I think for me, it's different for every person, but that's what I needed.

Gill Phillips  37:25  

Well, I was hearing there a very, very special person. I mean, we call them golden people, and I think that came through very strongly in Steven's story with Pat and with Dave. And these are the very, very special people for you. But I was hearing that harshness, but also humour and humanity. We've got 3h there, but like, I'm not going to let anything happen to you, because that's a lot of paperwork, and I just love people like that, because it goes outside the rule books in terms of what typically you say to people you know within guidelines, I know we had in our maternity work, one woman who was struggling with all sorts of things, but she was really good at breastfeeding, and one of the nurses called her Daisy, like Daisy the cow. Now, I mean, that is not something you're going to put in a rule book, you know, and there's guidance, but it made her laugh. And mental health wise, it was, you know, you're doing well. You're doing really well with something. Yes, work on the other things. So I love people like that. I like the sound of Tom,

Speaker 1  38:31  

Oh, he's so honestly, I often ask like, oh, because I don't obviously have any contact with him anymore. No, I kind of ask people that I still am in contact with, like in social services, because I have PA to I'm 25 in South gloss, so I go, Oh, what's Tom up to? And she's like, I think he's left South gloss. And I'm like, Oh, my goodness, no reason not gonna be able to hear how he's doing. But yeah, it is. It is nice to know he's a brilliant social worker. So it's nice to know that he's still a social worker, because so many of them leave, yes, social working, so it's not, it is nice to hear that you're still a social worker. And I, I hope he's having the impact they had on me, and I hope he knows how much he impact he has on on young people, because he really made a difference in such a tricky time.

Gill Phillips  39:24  

And hopefully, one way or another, through connections, he'll get to hear this podcast and it, you know, he'll be moved by this shelter, and you know, it's so nice when you get the chance to thank the special people. So you talked about your cousin, and you talked about Tom things that really change things around for you. Anything else that are really significant?

Speaker 1  39:45  

Yeah, so when I moved to Ferngate, there was somebody that came and visited who was an old member of staff, and she had just started working for Barnardos in Bristol, and a team called hype, and they. Really, it stands for helping young people engage, and it's a participation group. So they get, basically, they get people with lived experience to meet with mental health, social care, education, learning disability services. And she came and saw me, and I was probably ranting, because I was still very angry at that time about, yeah, my experiences that had happened in psychiatric hospitals, because some were awful. And she spoke to me, and she said, Oh, would you like to come along and volunteer and see if you like, you would come and do this participation work and meet with these heads of services. And it was so weird to begin with, because I was meeting people that I just, you know, heard their name, them being in some meeting about me and my care, and then actually getting to meet them in person and being like, Oh, you made quite a lot of decisions, but you've never once met me interesting. And so it was really, it was really strange to begin with, and like now, I spoke quite candidly, very honest. Just said what I thought I didn't really care for doing politics almost. I just kind of said what I thought. Obviously I wasn't horrible, but I just was like, Well, I don't think this is good enough. You've got young people who are poorly or need this support please. I don't want them to go through what I've been through. Um, Barnardos really liked me, and they said, oh, we'll give you a job, right? So I got a job. So I went from I did the same role, essentially, but I went from from being a volunteer until having a having a paid role, and that was so impactful on my recovery, because it gave me a purpose. Yeah, I had these experiences, and I could use them. I could turn them into a positive most people, even now, if they heard everything that I went through, like exactly how it happened, they would probably still be crying about it, and that's fine, like I probably should cry about it sometimes, but it allowed me to use that, all that energy that went into such emotional and big events, and turn that into actually an energy source, this hope that actually, right. These are how things are happening. They don't always have to be that way. Now use, use it as a tool, essentially. So working for Barnardos at the time, so I'd been at a hospital about six months at this point, and I was really, really struggling. I had quite a lot of self harm and things like that, and they came in at this time where I felt like it was starting to get a bit rocky, and it came in, and it allowed me to have that purpose, and it was a huge part of my recovery. And then I started to recover quite quickly, like started to gain that independence, in terms of, you know, cooking for myself, managing money, starting to go on public transport, myself, starting to leave the house on my own, because I was very frightened of leaving the house. So, yeah, it was it to people, it's just a job, but to me, it was like a lifeline. It was, it was a chance to turn negative into positive.

Gill Phillips  43:20  

It is the most wonderful story. And I'm so, you know, thrilled to get this chance for you to tell your story, and, you know, for people to listen to it. And I think there were lemon light bulbs all over the place out

Speaker 1  43:37  

of all these things, and there were stuff that happened in hospital that shouldn't have happened, legally, morally, should not have happened, and it gave me an opportunity to turn that into something positive, and offered me and the mental health services and things in the area an opportunity for things to be Different. And that's really want my work, everything I do at university, when I'm doing philosophy and I'm writing about what it means to be a human or whatever the topic I have working with young people myself now, doing some public speaking things, doing this podcast. It is. It's all about giving hope is one. And the second one is, is allowing services to know what the issues are. So there is an opportunity that for things to be different. And that's that's really at the centre of everything I do. And I hope there's a time where I don't need to talk about it anymore, and things will be, yes, the best they can be, but yes, at the moment, I feel like there is still a need for me to keep telling my story, and I will do that until it's no longer needed.

Gill Phillips  44:52  

It's amazing. I've got so many questions. Obviously, we we could talk for a long time, and it's how to use our session together. Yeah, podcast, but one of the things that's really jumped out at me is that it feels as if you were in this really, very, very difficult situation and struggling so much, not all that long ago, and now you've got the confidence to be challenging all these things, to be speaking at the conference, to be talking to me today, and also to be so articulate, and to be doing a university course, and you talked about how many years you'd lost with education. How did you manage to make that transition so quickly? And it's just so inspirational, really,

Speaker 1  45:43  

oh, that's a really tough one. Like, I actually wandered out myself because I was speaking to somebody. It was actually someone that is still because I still do have, like, support and things, um, from social care. And they said to me, I was just talking about, you know, some of the things that have happened on my journey. And I said, Oh, it's ages ago now. And they went, No, it isn't. I said, What do you mean? No, it isn't. They were like, two, three years it's not that long ago, Aurora, that's

Gill Phillips  46:11  

what I was thinking. Yeah.

Speaker 1  46:13  

I was like, yeah, yeah, it is. They're like, No, like, just put it into preset everywhere, three years ago, right now, you were sat in a psychiatric hospital, and you know, you didn't have rights. You were been out of education for two years, and now you're sat at university, achieving high grades, talking to me, going to these events, winning these awards, and you think it's like 10 years ago, but it isn't. It's three years ago, and you need to give yourself credit. And I was like, brushed it off because I really don't like compliments. I'm like, oh my goodness, no, don't I don't know I still feels quite uncomfortable when people say nice things.

Gill Phillips  46:59  

That's something that's important to learn. I think yeah, because they're genuinely, and I'm genuinely saying, wow, you know, and I want, want you to be proud of that, and to to be kind to yourself in terms of, yeah, your continued recovery, and how you're helping other people, and just to manage that in terms of, I think we've all got to, you know, when you've got a big heart, look after yourself as well and just take things, wow. I think it's inspirational. I know I'm thinking back to a podcast I recorded, which I'd like you to listen to. And I'd also like Daisy Mackey (her name) is to listen to you, and Daisy tells her story. Obviously, everybody's story is so individual, so different, but basically, growing up training to be a professional dancer, and then at around the age of 18, having a serious accident that made her disabled. She's a wheelchair user, and then she ended up going quite quickly to Cambridge University, even though she'd lost a lot of education over all those years. Because I think when you're training to be a professional dancer, education isn't the top priority. And obviously, like you're a really clever girl, really talented individual, and putting herself well again, a podcast guest to tell people a story and help people learn from it. Yeah. So I love these connections. I like making this there's, yeah, yeah. Steven, to you, to me, Daisy, the work we're doing in Staffordshire, lease Edwards, I think you know, we can all help each other and all bounce off each other. But I think hearing inspirational stories, it makes such a difference. It really makes a difference to people, and someone will be massively encouraged by either all of what you've said or some little nugget along the way. And that's how the ripples are formed. So was there anything else Aurora that we really need to include, because it's your story?

Speaker 1  49:07  

Yeah, yeah. I wanted to say, in terms of now being at uni and that short time story, I think it's because I wanted to go to university even as a child. To me, it was my way out, and I had this opportunity again. Tom was like, we've got you this school place. I need you to go because I know you want to go. But I had so many barriers mentally to it, yes. And I thought, I'm gonna give it one last try, everything, one last try, and I'm going to put my all into it, any energy that I have, everything my focus is education and getting better, and I just kept going. And sometimes that was just getting out of bed, sometimes that was spending all day at school and studying and reading all night, and it was just about keeping moving. And I. Had a goal, and I decided, I mean, people say it's not as simple as that, but I decided that I was going to get to university, whether you know that meant I never slept and just had to study the whole time I was getting to university. And I wanted to get into university as as a teenager, rather than as a mature student. Nothing wrong with going to uni as a mature student. Just want to make that clear for you, yeah. But for me, I wanted to get to uni and make friends and study something that I really cared about, and I was going to make that work, whichever way it was going to take me.

Gill Phillips  50:36  

And why? Why philosophy? Then?

Speaker 1  50:38  

Why philosophy? Um, wow. I always thought I was going to study politics, because I've always been very interested and annoyed with UK politics and actually international politics as well. And then I went and looked at a local university at the politics course, and I sat in there, and it was more of you know, just talking about policy and all of this, my issue is these policies are not even right to begin with, let alone trying to enforce them. I was like, I cannot spend three years listening about how important these laws and policies are that I do not even agree with. So I was with one of my support workers from Fern gate, and I said, Can we leave? They said, sometimes I struggle with knowing what, what's kind of socially acceptable. So I was like, Can we leave? She's like, No, it's not socially acceptable to leave when someone's halfway through talk, you have to sit through it. And I'm like, Oh my goodness. How am I going to sit through this? And I come out and I go, I really want to go to go to uni, but I didn't want to study, so I went back into the hall, and I thought, maybe I'll talk to the politics lecturers again. Maybe it'll change my mind. And I'm just stood there. I like, freeze in front of them, and I think, I don't want to go over, I don't want to talk to them. They're so boring. They're probably lovely people, but I was like, they're so boring. And I'm looking around, and I'm like, looking around, and a lovely lecturer came up to me, and she said, I feel like you've got a lot of questions about the world. I said, Oh, I don't know what course to study. She goes, No, no, no, that will come to you, but I feel like you've got more questions in you about the world than what people even realize. Would you like to come and learn about philosophy? I thought, Well, might as well, because I'm here all day, so might as well find out. I was like, Yeah, sure. And then she just spoke to me and she said, Well, do you know what philosophy is? And I said, or I kind of explained. I was like, Oh, yes, answer those questions. Lot about religion. She went all, did you know philosophy? We look at mental health, neurodiversity, ecology, climate change, and that was like, all these things that I have lots of big thoughts and opinions about, and philosophy was like the glue that brought all these things I cared about together. And I was like, I'm going to study philosophy. And then I went and looked at other universities to study philosophy, and that's how it came it was, it was that lecturer came up to me, and I don't even know her name, because I don't go to that university. I go to a different one, but she showed me that philosophy was everything that I've been talking about, but I like about in studying politics, because I did a level politics. It was like everything that I loved, plus all the stuff I was doing outside of college and my life, just my life journey in general, what it means to be a human, what it means to be on this earth, what it means to have a pet dog, what is that connection? What love is? It was like philosophy is the glue. So that's why I studied philosophy, because I have lots and lots and lots of questions about the world, and it gives me a chance to channel his questions and explore without people thinking I'm strange for having all these

Gill Phillips  53:51  

quick questions. I'm so glad I asked that question, and I'm so glad you met that woman. How incredible. How incredible. Yeah, yeah, yeah. That's a real goosebumps moment, and I can see, you know, I can feel how much you're loving your course and learning, and it's helping you with everything you're doing. So wow,

Aurora Thompson  54:17  

yeah, I could talk about philosophy all day.

Gill Phillips  54:22  

So this has been such a fascinating conversation, and something that's intriguing me, really is you've told me, obviously that you were diagnosed with autism, albeit quite late as a teenager. How do you think that has affected has helped or hindered your journey, and I think I'm hearing that you're quite outspoken and sort of straightforward with things. It feels like something so positive, rather than someone who's sitting there burning with all these different questions and thoughts but hasn't got the confidence to speak out. So that might be a massive stereotype that I've come up with, but I'd love to i. See if, well, see what your answer to that question is really,

Speaker 1  55:03  

yeah. I mean, especially now I do work now autism is like, huge help being autistic, because anything I like, I know loads of stuff like, about the Mental Health Act, because I'm a researcher and I obsess. So when I know I'm going to meet with this head of whatever service, and like, right? I read research all the policy. I research all every if they've got anything online that they've done, a news article, been in a news or something, I know that before I go in, it's like, such a huge help in knowing all the facts. What makes it challenging is that I'm a very straight up talker. I call, as my mum would say it, I'm not 100% I get the saying, but I call a spade a spade, yes. And I used to really struggle, because I used to think these things were a really bad thing. And for years of therapy, I come to realize that actually I can use these kind of, you know, these quite what's quite typical of an autistic person to use those things as as a method to, you know, get good results, rather than something that holds me back. There are elements of being autistic that is still incredibly difficult for me, sensory wise, that's the biggest one, even at Steven Russell's event, being in that environment, you know, lots of people, you know, talking, lots of smells, it, you know, it's incredibly overwhelming. And I literally after, when I got home, I slept for three days like I just completely go to shut down. I can't do anything just in a dark room, because any kind of stimulation is so overwhelming and painful for me after I've been in quite an overwhelming environment. But overall, being autistic, I used to want a cure for it. I used to want this pill, and it played into my mental health. As I talked briefly about that idea, I blamed being autistic for everything. Now, I often think I'm the normal one and everyone else is a bit strange.

Gill Phillips  57:12  

Well, I don't know whose normal and whose not. I'm sure I'm not.

Aurora Thompson  57:20  

I'm only messing

Gill Phillips  57:22  

I think we both know, and I think it's shining through that everyone's unique. And I think to play to your you know, for everyone, really, to use their untapped potential and play to their strengths, and to be a bit more curious about other people and what their strengths and challenges might be, is going to make the world a much more hopeful, a much more happy place, really?

Aurora Thompson  57:46  

Yeah, yeah. And I think, like, I often be thinking in philosophy, you know, about evolution and things, and if there, there must be an evolutionary reason for being autistic. Otherwise we all would have died out. Like, if you look at some of the greatest scientists in the world, they were neurodiverse of some description. If you look at even whatever you think about the military, but some of the one of the leading naval people in this country, has come out and said they're autistic, and it helps them with all the logistics and strategic ideas around the Navy. So if we start seeing it as if we support people to live a fulfilling life, they will then give back into society. But if you're keeping someone small and not giving them the support they need, I'm not gonna lie, I have a lot of support. That's the only reason why I'm able to do the things I do. So it's about giving people that opportunity to to achieve the things that potential, rather than just, you know, you talked about diagnostic overshadowing, like, rather than just seeing a diagnosis. And that's it, about seeing a whole person. Because if you support somebody, they can achieve anything they want to achieve, 100% I believe that, and that's something that I would really like to say to everyone, is that dream big and go for those dreams, because you might just get there. I something I always think is aim for the stars, and you'll land somewhere near the moon. That's what I always think of when I'm having a tough day, I'm like, keep aiming for the stars. You might just get near the moon. And like the stars is like peak, like the best your life in your head could ever be. And then the moon is like, also a great result. But either way, it's cooler than being on the earth

Gill Phillips  59:38  

that we need to end there. Because I think that's such a lovely message to end with. Let's all dream big and help other people to dream big. And thank you, Aurora, that was amazing.

Aurora Thompson  59:48  

Thank you so much, Gill,

Gill Phillips  59:51  

thank you so much for listening. If you enjoyed this episode, it would be fantastic if you would leave a review and a rating as well. As recommending the wild card whose shoes podcast series to anyone who you think might find it interesting, and please subscribe that way you get to hear when new episodes are available. I have lots more wonderful podcast guests in the pipeline, and don't forget to explore and share previous episodes so many conversations with amazing people who are courageously sharing their stories and experiences across a very wide range of topics. I tweet as whose shoes. Thank you for being on this journey with me, and let's hope that together we can make a difference. See you next time you.